I’m still trying to understand the Knicks' thinking with Cisse. While I like the player, as soon as the signing of the offer sheet was announced, I figured there was no way Dallas would allow him to go to the Knicks. Even though it’s essentially a veteran's minimum contract, Dallas must still be bitter and embarrassed about letting Jalen go and watching him lead the Knicks to a championship. There is no way they would take even a minuscule chance of Cisse turning into a quality player for New York.
Regardless, Cisse was exactly the type of player I hoped the Knicks would sign. He’s a bouncy, young, rim-running center who is particularly good at offensive rebounding. I’m not sure if there is anyone else out there who fits that profile—at least anyone the Knicks could sign for the veteran's minimum.
At this point, instead of wasting a spot on a Nick Richards, I’d prefer if the Knicks waited until training camp to see if a some team had excess back up centers who fit the Cisse profile.
When I heard that the Knicks signed Cisse, my immediate thought was that Dallas would match the offer right away. However, given how creative this front office is, I started wondering if they included "poison pills" in the contract to make it difficult or distasteful for Dallas to match.
While I don't know all the current CBA rules, in the past, teams could structure contracts with provisions like a lump-sum payment, a full no-trade clause, or a guaranteed promise not to send the player down to the G-League.
Of course, it is also possible the Knicks didn't want to live with those clauses either, which might explain the plain vanilla minimum salary.
Knicks may still be trying to pay back Dallas for tanking when the Knicks had Dallas' 10th pick several years ago--a pick that reverted to two 2nd round draft choices. Dallas, in turn, matched the Cisse contract offer to spite the Knicks. I look for Dallas to trade one of their big men to any team other than the Knicks. Dallas will be perennial sore for the Knicks theft of Brunson, which at the time seemed like an overpay, but turned out to be the bargain of the century.
I don’t know about anyone else, but half of my You Tube viewing is Knicks content, including the Plethora of music videos dedicated to the Playoff Knicks. Waiting for candidate for the “3rd string”position of backup center is the only drama left for the Champions. What a difference 1 year can make.
1. i’m glad to know you recognize the inherent folly of ranking players or teams (yet still do it - humanity in a nutshell)! I wish more fans realized that things like All-star selections, All-NBA selections, and MVP are all just people like Jon making tough decisions that pretty much defy accuracy as we know it!
2. If I may borrow from Ray, the history of Knicks restricted free agency is not extensive as it seems Mr. Jimmy doesn’t like to play there, and I can see why. But one past episode is memorable for me because it led to the one move that makes me wonder if it prevented the 90s Knicks from reaching the promised land.
In the summer of ‘92, after getting knocked out of the playoffs by the Bulls, the Knicks were looking to get a forward that could counter what Scottie Pippen was bringing. So they signed Harvey Grant, twin brother of Horace, to an offer sheet to try to get him away from the Washington team, who back then were still known as the Bullets.
Alas, the Bullets matched. Who knows if Harvey would have thrived in New York, but the matching likely led to the Knicks trading point guard Mark Jackson for Charles Smith later that year. Smith wasn’t terrible as the end of that game 5 would suggest, but I feel the chemistry had a chip in it before that change.
I feared, when the Knicks traded for Kat, that they were making a similar mistake. Alas, Kat is not Charles Smith, as the evidence now clearly shows!
So Harvey and Horace had very different careers (see the Champagnie boys for another compare and contrast). https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/harvey_grant_vs_horace_grant.htm You do wonder if this was a function of what settings they landed in, since presumably the genetics, physical elements, and even mental elements would have been similar. (I was alive when they were both playing, but can't say I followed either player particularly closely).
Horace played for the hated Bulls, but I had a lot of respect for him. GREAT two way PF. Twins are often very different players, like Robin and Brook Lopez. Brook was all offense, Robin was all defense when they came in the league. Brook was also less level-headed than Robin, who was a bit more happy-go-lucky. Interesting subject for sure.
As a former English student I am going to have to correct your “alas” (it means sorrowfully) and replace it with something like “thankfully” or “happily”, but I otherwise endorse your post.
Well, I believe that if the Knicks had successfully acquired Harvey Grant, they would not have made the Charles Smith trade, Mark Jackson would have remained the point guard, they still would have signed Anthony Mason would would have supplanted Smith in the starting lineup, and the Knicks would have won a championship in one of those years. So I think ‘alas’ is appropriate.
On the other hand, if that had happened we would not have had “The Dunk” by Starks. And we might not be champions today. So perhaps you are right. In some sense, can one ever truly ‘alas’ the past? This is the kind of conundrum that leads me to context-switch to remembering OG’s tip in, Kat’s finger on the inbounds, and Mitch’s final offensive rebound.
I looked up Oscar Tshiebwe as I never heard of him. It sounds like he is a ferocious rebounder but is only 6’8.” I’m curious as to why Jeremy thinks the Knicks should (might?) attempt to acquire him from the Jazz?
This sounds like a rollicking good time. Summer fun. Here is my favorite line from today's post: "There is no possible way to definitively rank the greatest players in the history of a franchise any more than there’s a way to rank the top 100 soft cheeses or native birds of Madagascar." LOL
I cant wait for the list along with whatever you guys have in store on YT and Patreon. The Summer of Knicks content never been seen before......begins.......NOW!!!!!
For me numbers one and two are Clyde and Brunson. Lots of stats from Ewing but no titles. Hakeem never had great talent around him (look at the team that beat the Knicks—Smith and Cassell?!?), but he won two titles. For Clyde 36, 19 and 7 puts you at the top of the list (might be the greatest finals game anyone ever played, better than Magic in 1980 and Brunson’s performance including 45 in game five puts you number two. Ewing and Reed slot in comfortably at three and four.
Regarding Cisse, I think his agent is the same as Pacome and Kayil's ... not sure it means anything but maybe it does .... if they really wanted him, they just gave us a couple of 2rps when they traded with us at the draft, you have to think we could have offered them back
I thought the Cisse offer was a brilliant attempt. We have all seen teams use cap space (below an apron, below the luxury tax, etc.). But I don’t remember ever seeing a team weaponize roster space. It did, as Jon points out, force Dallas to decide if Cisse would be worth keeping if it meant potentially cutting a player and taking a dead cap hit or using a draft asset to dump a player into cap room. It did not work out , but we have limited options if we are staying below the second option. I thought it was innovative and quite smart.
Omg trading anything for Derek Lively would be a disaster! This guy is busted goods Macri. He's been in the league 3 years and missed half the games the last two. He's also a big man with multiple foot injuries. No thanks on that.
Sure. But I feel like the Mavs are kinda trapped with him. They have to ride it out and hope. Though I guess Masai wasn't involved so he might not be as attached.
I’m still trying to understand the Knicks' thinking with Cisse. While I like the player, as soon as the signing of the offer sheet was announced, I figured there was no way Dallas would allow him to go to the Knicks. Even though it’s essentially a veteran's minimum contract, Dallas must still be bitter and embarrassed about letting Jalen go and watching him lead the Knicks to a championship. There is no way they would take even a minuscule chance of Cisse turning into a quality player for New York.
Regardless, Cisse was exactly the type of player I hoped the Knicks would sign. He’s a bouncy, young, rim-running center who is particularly good at offensive rebounding. I’m not sure if there is anyone else out there who fits that profile—at least anyone the Knicks could sign for the veteran's minimum.
At this point, instead of wasting a spot on a Nick Richards, I’d prefer if the Knicks waited until training camp to see if a some team had excess back up centers who fit the Cisse profile.
What should they have done instead to get Cissé?
When I heard that the Knicks signed Cisse, my immediate thought was that Dallas would match the offer right away. However, given how creative this front office is, I started wondering if they included "poison pills" in the contract to make it difficult or distasteful for Dallas to match.
While I don't know all the current CBA rules, in the past, teams could structure contracts with provisions like a lump-sum payment, a full no-trade clause, or a guaranteed promise not to send the player down to the G-League.
Of course, it is also possible the Knicks didn't want to live with those clauses either, which might explain the plain vanilla minimum salary.
The only thing they could have done is dumped salary and offered him more.
Knicks may still be trying to pay back Dallas for tanking when the Knicks had Dallas' 10th pick several years ago--a pick that reverted to two 2nd round draft choices. Dallas, in turn, matched the Cisse contract offer to spite the Knicks. I look for Dallas to trade one of their big men to any team other than the Knicks. Dallas will be perennial sore for the Knicks theft of Brunson, which at the time seemed like an overpay, but turned out to be the bargain of the century.
Agree
I don’t know about anyone else, but half of my You Tube viewing is Knicks content, including the Plethora of music videos dedicated to the Playoff Knicks. Waiting for candidate for the “3rd string”position of backup center is the only drama left for the Champions. What a difference 1 year can make.
1. i’m glad to know you recognize the inherent folly of ranking players or teams (yet still do it - humanity in a nutshell)! I wish more fans realized that things like All-star selections, All-NBA selections, and MVP are all just people like Jon making tough decisions that pretty much defy accuracy as we know it!
2. If I may borrow from Ray, the history of Knicks restricted free agency is not extensive as it seems Mr. Jimmy doesn’t like to play there, and I can see why. But one past episode is memorable for me because it led to the one move that makes me wonder if it prevented the 90s Knicks from reaching the promised land.
In the summer of ‘92, after getting knocked out of the playoffs by the Bulls, the Knicks were looking to get a forward that could counter what Scottie Pippen was bringing. So they signed Harvey Grant, twin brother of Horace, to an offer sheet to try to get him away from the Washington team, who back then were still known as the Bullets.
Alas, the Bullets matched. Who knows if Harvey would have thrived in New York, but the matching likely led to the Knicks trading point guard Mark Jackson for Charles Smith later that year. Smith wasn’t terrible as the end of that game 5 would suggest, but I feel the chemistry had a chip in it before that change.
I feared, when the Knicks traded for Kat, that they were making a similar mistake. Alas, Kat is not Charles Smith, as the evidence now clearly shows!
If you said “Alas the Bullets matched” that would fit. But happily Kat is not Charles Smith.
So Harvey and Horace had very different careers (see the Champagnie boys for another compare and contrast). https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/harvey_grant_vs_horace_grant.htm You do wonder if this was a function of what settings they landed in, since presumably the genetics, physical elements, and even mental elements would have been similar. (I was alive when they were both playing, but can't say I followed either player particularly closely).
Horace played for the hated Bulls, but I had a lot of respect for him. GREAT two way PF. Twins are often very different players, like Robin and Brook Lopez. Brook was all offense, Robin was all defense when they came in the league. Brook was also less level-headed than Robin, who was a bit more happy-go-lucky. Interesting subject for sure.
And the past is often alased (which as an English student I will admit is not a verb or a word). Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him well.
As a former English student I am going to have to correct your “alas” (it means sorrowfully) and replace it with something like “thankfully” or “happily”, but I otherwise endorse your post.
Well, I believe that if the Knicks had successfully acquired Harvey Grant, they would not have made the Charles Smith trade, Mark Jackson would have remained the point guard, they still would have signed Anthony Mason would would have supplanted Smith in the starting lineup, and the Knicks would have won a championship in one of those years. So I think ‘alas’ is appropriate.
On the other hand, if that had happened we would not have had “The Dunk” by Starks. And we might not be champions today. So perhaps you are right. In some sense, can one ever truly ‘alas’ the past? This is the kind of conundrum that leads me to context-switch to remembering OG’s tip in, Kat’s finger on the inbounds, and Mitch’s final offensive rebound.
Props to the KFS crew for turning a passion into something this big. It’s inspiring.
Thanks AG! We're still blown away by all of it.
I looked up Oscar Tshiebwe as I never heard of him. It sounds like he is a ferocious rebounder but is only 6’8.” I’m curious as to why Jeremy thinks the Knicks should (might?) attempt to acquire him from the Jazz?
I think the advanced stats paint him as the Knicks "type" at C
Got it, thanks Jonathan!
This sounds like a rollicking good time. Summer fun. Here is my favorite line from today's post: "There is no possible way to definitively rank the greatest players in the history of a franchise any more than there’s a way to rank the top 100 soft cheeses or native birds of Madagascar." LOL
I cant wait for the list along with whatever you guys have in store on YT and Patreon. The Summer of Knicks content never been seen before......begins.......NOW!!!!!
LGK!! Knicks in 🖐!!
For me numbers one and two are Clyde and Brunson. Lots of stats from Ewing but no titles. Hakeem never had great talent around him (look at the team that beat the Knicks—Smith and Cassell?!?), but he won two titles. For Clyde 36, 19 and 7 puts you at the top of the list (might be the greatest finals game anyone ever played, better than Magic in 1980 and Brunson’s performance including 45 in game five puts you number two. Ewing and Reed slot in comfortably at three and four.
I don't think there's a wrong answer between the top 4, personally, even if we all have our orders
“Chugging an entire gallon of milk?” What is this the Summer of George?
If only.
Regarding Cisse, I think his agent is the same as Pacome and Kayil's ... not sure it means anything but maybe it does .... if they really wanted him, they just gave us a couple of 2rps when they traded with us at the draft, you have to think we could have offered them back
I thought the Cisse offer was a brilliant attempt. We have all seen teams use cap space (below an apron, below the luxury tax, etc.). But I don’t remember ever seeing a team weaponize roster space. It did, as Jon points out, force Dallas to decide if Cisse would be worth keeping if it meant potentially cutting a player and taking a dead cap hit or using a draft asset to dump a player into cap room. It did not work out , but we have limited options if we are staying below the second option. I thought it was innovative and quite smart.
My guesses:
1: Landry Shamet
2: Howie Komives
3: Jamal Crawford
4: Max Zaslofsky
You got 2!
Hmm ... could #1 be Dean "the Dream" Meminger?
Richie Geuerin the mystery answer to any trivia question with top scorers
HA...he's much higher on the list, but good guess!
Didn't Mike Breen say that on a telecast? Hahaha. He's usually a great guess.
Omg trading anything for Derek Lively would be a disaster! This guy is busted goods Macri. He's been in the league 3 years and missed half the games the last two. He's also a big man with multiple foot injuries. No thanks on that.
if the cost was low enough, I'd bite
The Knicks hired their medical guy they fired. Mavs just fired their new medical guy they hired when they fired Casey Smith.
Sure. But I feel like the Mavs are kinda trapped with him. They have to ride it out and hope. Though I guess Masai wasn't involved so he might not be as attached.