They're about what we thought they'd be honestly. They're a top 5 team by net rating. In fact they're fifth. And other than the Thunder they're close enough that they could easily win or lose a series.
They feel very much like the 90s Knicks at this point. A very good team that has a very real chance every year but will not be favored. That's pretty good to me. As much as Charles Smith tortures my dreams I enjoyed that run of basketball so much.
There's a lot of luck involved here. Nobody thought SGA would be this good. He looked like a future All Star maybe but nobody thought he was a future mvp. Detroit had to be truly miserable for years. Boston lucked out by winning one of the worst trades in history.
Either way, whether they win a ring or not during this run I do believe the current front office should be allowed to rebuild the next roster a few years from now. This is the best front office they've had in 30 years and it should continue to run the show.
God comment Pliny. I agree with you that the front office is good and they deserve a long runway. I also know who the owner is. Re: the 90's com, there's no MJ in the conference at the moment, so that's something.
I agree that we're in the middle of run like the 90s Knicks had. I remember those years - it really started in '89 when Oakley arrived. Each year brought hope that we could go all the way. Of course, each of those years ended up being a different type of heartbreak. But it was a great run!
This team is a much different team, structurally and stylistically. We definitely have more options on offense, and an elite floor general, which those teams never had after Mark Jackson was traded. We're more like the 90s Bulls to be honest, which is weird but I hope we get the same results!
Ive had gripes with Leon, but I agree. He's been good enough to where hes earned the right to finally bring some semblance of extended stability in NY. For all I know, my gripes are with moves Leon made to acquiesce James Dolan.
Well, I was wondering how you would find something to actually write about in a game that was not much fun to watch till Kolek joined the fray. But you succeeded in having something interesting to say, as usual. Kudos.
It’s why I haven’t missed a game in many years ;though I have had to rely on DVD on many occasions. A long season is like art. The more context you know, the greater the depth of appreciation. That being said, I don’t plan to revisit yesterday’s museum any time soon.
Here’s the money line, Jonathan: “For these Knicks, it’s less about the mean than the range. Can New York avoid the inconsistency that has plagued them for two years?”
From your lips to God’s ears.
Watching last night reminded me of a combined varsity–JV practice back in high school. (I was very much on the JV side of the ledger.) Coaches decided to let the teams scrimmage, and the varsity came out like they had somewhere else to be and we were in the way. Layups, steals, fast breaks, the whole thing.
Timeout. Varsity coach pulls his guys in. I have no idea what he said, but the tone changed immediately. After that, they played with us the way a cat plays with a mouse — not to kill it right away, just to make sure the mouse understood who was in charge.
That’s what this felt like. The Knicks weren’t in danger. They were just toying with the JV version of an NBA team, stretching the lead, letting it wobble, tightening it again whenever they felt like it.
Two Mike Breen moments made the night for me. First, when he pushed back on the tired “KAT doesn’t like physicality” line — thank you, voice of reason. Second, when he pointed out (almost certainly correctly) that Josh has no idea how close he is to the consecutive-threes record. That was perfect. Josh plays basketball the way a kid plays pickup — see ball, shoot ball, run back, steal ball, repeat.
And the game was such a farce that I was able to flip over to Iowa knocking off Florida without a second of stress, which might be the surest sign of all that this one was never in doubt.
When do we start resting the boys. The last couple of years has shown us playoff health outweighs home court advantage. Thankfully Brunson sat the fourth. I’d personally prefer the top six to start rotating who misses games entirely. They should play just enough to stay sharp. There’s no guarantee that rested players won’t get hurt, but it does increase the odds.
I don’t care if Washington wins the lotto. Cameron Boozers, or the Kansas guard are not fixing that mess. Finding creative ways to tank doesn’t create an OKC. OKC’s success was based on the incredible volume of picks and young outside talent they picked up. Trey Young and AD aren’t SGA. How many meh first rounders did OKC recycle to obtain another who was right for the job. All I took out of last nights game is that the Washington blue/red combo jerseys are nicer than the stupid gold ones, and if I was confronted by Trey Young in his hoodie on the subway, I’d put a buck in his tin cup.
All timer Trae Young line Martin. And OKC is only OKC because the Clippers made what we'll look back on as one of the most shortsighted trades in NBA history.
Bridges will likely refuse to sit. He has an ambition to become the NBA's all-time iron man and never sit for as many seasons as possible. Somehow, he stays healthy enough but he is risking a more serious injury not to mention exhaustion that limits his own as well as the team's productivity. Brown needs to at least consider some minutes restriction in the remaining games before the playoffs.
Watching the first half of this game was like watching the twilight zone. We know it looks like a scrimmage but it also looked pretty scary in the first half given the turnovers and the sloppiness .I hate to be Jeremiah but watching the first half gave me pause but maybe I'm getting a little cynical after watching the last few games. I think it's important to stop playing down to the opposition and the first half was classic playing down to the opposition. It did get easy and I finally shut it off with eight minutes left do I didnt 😃see kolek do his thing although I had read about the afternoon 42 points in Westchester. Respectfully I don't think Alverado is what we expected and frankly Kolek should be getting more minutes.
Hopefully Alvarado’s three-point shot is back. Anyway, he’ll be getting less minutes once Deuce is back. I think they should give Kolek a chance to run with JB and KAT. I bet he can get the offense humming with JB off the ball.
Hopeful that Kolek is out of his slump. A day where you cannot miss is a good way to break out and get your confidence back. He can be a good back up point and sees the floor as well as anyone on the team.
I’m sure I’m missing something, but we are so much better at home than away. 26-9 vs 20-16. I see some people argue that 2 vs 3 or 4 seed doesn’t matter all that much, but given how we play at home (putting aside that we won 2 away at Boston in playoffs last year), isn’t the fight vs Boston for 2 seed (and home court advantage vs them) quite important especially if Cade isn’t going to be 100% in R1 and possibly R2?
You're not missing anything, and home court does matter. But recent playoff history says that home court (not just for the Knicks, but around the league) doesn't matter nearly as much as it once did.
Regular season is regular season. The focus and intensity of the playoffs neutralizes home court for the most part. In fact, I’ll wager that many players prefer playing away from their home life distractions. Regular season on the road creates decisions of what club, restaurant, YMCA, or
Nice analysis Jon - I’ll add in that the stat that is missing is a variability estimate, which isn’t provided by the league but should be. The teams you cite as being “defensively dominant” are the teams that are more CONSISTENT on the defensive end. Unlike us, their offense doesn’t affect their defensive engagement and execution as much. Our offensive rating is also (I think) more variable than some teams. So our ratings have a slightly lower mean and combined net as a result, BUT a larger range of likely actual outcomes. The question remains whether WE/the Knicks have control of the “Engage” switch and whether we have the wherewithal to flip it.
I had a concert and reception, and didn’t start watching until they started pulling away in the second quarter. My observations:
Watching the bench reaction when Kolek hit his third three gave me life. Seeing KAT, Big Mitch, Shamet, and Brunson whooping and celebrating, and seeing the usually stoic OG with a sh!t-eating grin on his face was fantastic.
Which leads to the second point. I begin to think the issue is not that players dislike each other (the aforementioned reaction being just one proof of same). I think the game bogs down when they start thinking too much. Unfortunately, a stout, physical defense can also set off overthinking. But when KAT gets the ball in motion, or anybody cuts, catches, and shoots, they look unstoppable. I suspect when they are trying to figure out who to feed, or what wrinkle to run, that gives the defense enough time to set up and make them uncomfortable.
And boy howdy, is this ever the KAT that we were promised! Love and respect to him for going out there and being a monster, even as KAT Sr. is in the hospital. May his recovery be swift and uninteresting.
Took care of buesiness again and now celtics right there for us..should be a fun race to end, just stay healthy if were three seed or two see whatever. And just wondering did i hope the Celtics take as big a beating the Knicks would for losing a home primetime tv game vs a Ant Edwards less Twolves. If it was the Knicks it would be on first take and twitter woulld be ablaze. Lol. Just shows how meaningless March reg season tends to be.
Net ratings, streaks, end of bench scoring, it all means nothing until the money season starts in about a month. The NBA book on the Knicks is that if you can push them around and beat them up, then you can neutralize KAT and most of their offense, that Brunson gets frustrated and sometimes taken out of his game by the constant pounding with no foul calls, that OG with the ball in his hands is nothing to worry about due to less than a fully refined game around the basket. The real story is whether the Knicks (particularly Towns) have the mental toughness to get through the gauntlet of physicality that awaits them, and whether Hart can stay out of his own head long enough to continue to be a strong net positive. Having some real (not fake) tough dudes like Alvarado, Clarkson and Deuce should help, but I hope that Coach Brown really understands that force must be met with force, since the only way to stare down a bully is to stay disciplined and match their physicality, and that he MUST get up and work the malleable referees like his friend Rick Carlisle does instead of sitting passively and constantly spitting into a Dixie cup. Can "Nice Guys" finish first? Do they want it enough to do what it takes, and not take any crap from opponents? Nobody knows for sure.
I honestly don't get this whole "the book on the Knicks is you can be physical with them." Aside from Detroit this year when has that happened? Not in the playoffs last year. Not when they are beating Denver two times, or San Antonio multiple times, or any number of quality teams. I honestly think that narrative is bullshit. Can you get in Karl's head a little? Sure. Does Josh get in his own head sometimes? Sure.
This whole narrative that the Knicks are soft is just dumb. For all the Detroit talk, let's see you win a fucking playoff series first before you are allowed to say anything.
Makes me so angry sometimes. JB is tough. Josh is tough. Mikal legit never misses a game. Mitch is tough. Deuce is tough. OG is tough. Fuck outta here with this nonsense.
I'm with you. The core is a bunch of nice guys, but equating that to being "soft" is stupid. Everyone throwing that label around works at a computer, types words and/or shouts nonsense for their careers.
so as someone who works at a computer for a living I don't know if I'm with you on that. My point is that there is actually zero proof or evidence of this team being soft. Quite the contrary actually. Hence why this whole narrative is bullshit. As to the latest perpetrator - Josh Minot - try doing anything in your NBA career before you put KAT's name in your mouth. Or should I say before you put 6-time all-star, 3-time All NBA KAT's name.
Oh, and on the point of them being nice, I think that's great. For example, Kobe in his playing days was a straight up dick and he gets lionized for it which is a whole other issue these days. You don't have to be a dick to be great, plenty of example out there.
Lol im not knocking that, I work from home, at a computer for a living. My point is, the people labeling them soft don't have skin in the game, they're keyboard warriors or something akin to Stephen A. Smith.
Yeah I'm with you, I actually admire them being "nice" or whatever. People just equate a propensity to get into scuffles as tough. Kobe and mj were tough...and they were assholes. Plenty of champs who were "tough" and came off "nice".
Brown said in his post gamer he didn't know it was a 6 game winning streak. Let's hope he wasn't being serious about that! Let's also hope they can maintain a level of play so that the April 9th game vs the Celtics has meaning! Hats off to Tyler Kolek, but besides that, let's move onto the Pelicans (should be the Jazz) tomorrow! (Kudos to you Jon for having the ability to write a lengthy & informative article about this game!). #LGK
Oh one thought about the Wizards game … that game was just like every other game we half-assed with one exception: our shots were falling. Hit us with another inextricable 20% 3 pt shooting game from the team and it looks like a couple of other games we clutched pearls over.
They're about what we thought they'd be honestly. They're a top 5 team by net rating. In fact they're fifth. And other than the Thunder they're close enough that they could easily win or lose a series.
They feel very much like the 90s Knicks at this point. A very good team that has a very real chance every year but will not be favored. That's pretty good to me. As much as Charles Smith tortures my dreams I enjoyed that run of basketball so much.
There's a lot of luck involved here. Nobody thought SGA would be this good. He looked like a future All Star maybe but nobody thought he was a future mvp. Detroit had to be truly miserable for years. Boston lucked out by winning one of the worst trades in history.
Either way, whether they win a ring or not during this run I do believe the current front office should be allowed to rebuild the next roster a few years from now. This is the best front office they've had in 30 years and it should continue to run the show.
God comment Pliny. I agree with you that the front office is good and they deserve a long runway. I also know who the owner is. Re: the 90's com, there's no MJ in the conference at the moment, so that's something.
No, but if they get to the finals, I can see SGA playing in the MJ role. That fucker doesn’t miss when the game is on the line.
Ahem! Brunson is the MJ of the conference, at least offensively.
I agree that we're in the middle of run like the 90s Knicks had. I remember those years - it really started in '89 when Oakley arrived. Each year brought hope that we could go all the way. Of course, each of those years ended up being a different type of heartbreak. But it was a great run!
This team is a much different team, structurally and stylistically. We definitely have more options on offense, and an elite floor general, which those teams never had after Mark Jackson was traded. We're more like the 90s Bulls to be honest, which is weird but I hope we get the same results!
Ha. It is strangely similar to the 90s bulls in roster construction. Shooters and big wings around a ball dominant guard.
Ive had gripes with Leon, but I agree. He's been good enough to where hes earned the right to finally bring some semblance of extended stability in NY. For all I know, my gripes are with moves Leon made to acquiesce James Dolan.
Well, I was wondering how you would find something to actually write about in a game that was not much fun to watch till Kolek joined the fray. But you succeeded in having something interesting to say, as usual. Kudos.
It’s why I haven’t missed a game in many years ;though I have had to rely on DVD on many occasions. A long season is like art. The more context you know, the greater the depth of appreciation. That being said, I don’t plan to revisit yesterday’s museum any time soon.
Dare I say yesterday was the least memorable 30+ point win of the Brunson era.
There's always something Ken!
Here’s the money line, Jonathan: “For these Knicks, it’s less about the mean than the range. Can New York avoid the inconsistency that has plagued them for two years?”
From your lips to God’s ears.
Watching last night reminded me of a combined varsity–JV practice back in high school. (I was very much on the JV side of the ledger.) Coaches decided to let the teams scrimmage, and the varsity came out like they had somewhere else to be and we were in the way. Layups, steals, fast breaks, the whole thing.
Timeout. Varsity coach pulls his guys in. I have no idea what he said, but the tone changed immediately. After that, they played with us the way a cat plays with a mouse — not to kill it right away, just to make sure the mouse understood who was in charge.
That’s what this felt like. The Knicks weren’t in danger. They were just toying with the JV version of an NBA team, stretching the lead, letting it wobble, tightening it again whenever they felt like it.
Two Mike Breen moments made the night for me. First, when he pushed back on the tired “KAT doesn’t like physicality” line — thank you, voice of reason. Second, when he pointed out (almost certainly correctly) that Josh has no idea how close he is to the consecutive-threes record. That was perfect. Josh plays basketball the way a kid plays pickup — see ball, shoot ball, run back, steal ball, repeat.
And the game was such a farce that I was able to flip over to Iowa knocking off Florida without a second of stress, which might be the surest sign of all that this one was never in doubt.
Great comp Tim. I had a similar thought when it was 38 all.
And great call on the Breen lines, although part of me hopes KAT never hears Mike's defense so he can keep trying to prove his old teammate wrong.
Thanks, Jonathan. You do get the feeling that Mike is a typical Irishman, full of good cheer and never met a stranger.
When do we start resting the boys. The last couple of years has shown us playoff health outweighs home court advantage. Thankfully Brunson sat the fourth. I’d personally prefer the top six to start rotating who misses games entirely. They should play just enough to stay sharp. There’s no guarantee that rested players won’t get hurt, but it does increase the odds.
I don’t care if Washington wins the lotto. Cameron Boozers, or the Kansas guard are not fixing that mess. Finding creative ways to tank doesn’t create an OKC. OKC’s success was based on the incredible volume of picks and young outside talent they picked up. Trey Young and AD aren’t SGA. How many meh first rounders did OKC recycle to obtain another who was right for the job. All I took out of last nights game is that the Washington blue/red combo jerseys are nicer than the stupid gold ones, and if I was confronted by Trey Young in his hoodie on the subway, I’d put a buck in his tin cup.
All timer Trae Young line Martin. And OKC is only OKC because the Clippers made what we'll look back on as one of the most shortsighted trades in NBA history.
Bridges will likely refuse to sit. He has an ambition to become the NBA's all-time iron man and never sit for as many seasons as possible. Somehow, he stays healthy enough but he is risking a more serious injury not to mention exhaustion that limits his own as well as the team's productivity. Brown needs to at least consider some minutes restriction in the remaining games before the playoffs.
I was thinking the same as well. What's our magic number to clinch #2?
Watching the first half of this game was like watching the twilight zone. We know it looks like a scrimmage but it also looked pretty scary in the first half given the turnovers and the sloppiness .I hate to be Jeremiah but watching the first half gave me pause but maybe I'm getting a little cynical after watching the last few games. I think it's important to stop playing down to the opposition and the first half was classic playing down to the opposition. It did get easy and I finally shut it off with eight minutes left do I didnt 😃see kolek do his thing although I had read about the afternoon 42 points in Westchester. Respectfully I don't think Alverado is what we expected and frankly Kolek should be getting more minutes.
I' definitely happy Kolek reminded everyone of what he can do. Alvarado needs to be better.
Hopefully Alvarado’s three-point shot is back. Anyway, he’ll be getting less minutes once Deuce is back. I think they should give Kolek a chance to run with JB and KAT. I bet he can get the offense humming with JB off the ball.
Super agree. Let the genie out of the bottle
Hopeful that Kolek is out of his slump. A day where you cannot miss is a good way to break out and get your confidence back. He can be a good back up point and sees the floor as well as anyone on the team.
MSG crowd chanting Kolek's name while Breen/Clyde discuss him taking a private helicopter from the G League to the game tonight... perfect.
I’m sure I’m missing something, but we are so much better at home than away. 26-9 vs 20-16. I see some people argue that 2 vs 3 or 4 seed doesn’t matter all that much, but given how we play at home (putting aside that we won 2 away at Boston in playoffs last year), isn’t the fight vs Boston for 2 seed (and home court advantage vs them) quite important especially if Cade isn’t going to be 100% in R1 and possibly R2?
You're not missing anything, and home court does matter. But recent playoff history says that home court (not just for the Knicks, but around the league) doesn't matter nearly as much as it once did.
Regular season is regular season. The focus and intensity of the playoffs neutralizes home court for the most part. In fact, I’ll wager that many players prefer playing away from their home life distractions. Regular season on the road creates decisions of what club, restaurant, YMCA, or
vineyard to visit first.
Nice analysis Jon - I’ll add in that the stat that is missing is a variability estimate, which isn’t provided by the league but should be. The teams you cite as being “defensively dominant” are the teams that are more CONSISTENT on the defensive end. Unlike us, their offense doesn’t affect their defensive engagement and execution as much. Our offensive rating is also (I think) more variable than some teams. So our ratings have a slightly lower mean and combined net as a result, BUT a larger range of likely actual outcomes. The question remains whether WE/the Knicks have control of the “Engage” switch and whether we have the wherewithal to flip it.
I think they know where the switch is. That's a start!
This. The standard deviation is wider and while the media likes to spout when the downside shows, the upside is real.
I had a concert and reception, and didn’t start watching until they started pulling away in the second quarter. My observations:
Watching the bench reaction when Kolek hit his third three gave me life. Seeing KAT, Big Mitch, Shamet, and Brunson whooping and celebrating, and seeing the usually stoic OG with a sh!t-eating grin on his face was fantastic.
Which leads to the second point. I begin to think the issue is not that players dislike each other (the aforementioned reaction being just one proof of same). I think the game bogs down when they start thinking too much. Unfortunately, a stout, physical defense can also set off overthinking. But when KAT gets the ball in motion, or anybody cuts, catches, and shoots, they look unstoppable. I suspect when they are trying to figure out who to feed, or what wrinkle to run, that gives the defense enough time to set up and make them uncomfortable.
And boy howdy, is this ever the KAT that we were promised! Love and respect to him for going out there and being a monster, even as KAT Sr. is in the hospital. May his recovery be swift and uninteresting.
couldn't agree more on the overthinking part.
as someone who was ready to ship KAT out for lesser pieces of depth I am so happy to have been so wrong.
Took care of buesiness again and now celtics right there for us..should be a fun race to end, just stay healthy if were three seed or two see whatever. And just wondering did i hope the Celtics take as big a beating the Knicks would for losing a home primetime tv game vs a Ant Edwards less Twolves. If it was the Knicks it would be on first take and twitter woulld be ablaze. Lol. Just shows how meaningless March reg season tends to be.
Net ratings, streaks, end of bench scoring, it all means nothing until the money season starts in about a month. The NBA book on the Knicks is that if you can push them around and beat them up, then you can neutralize KAT and most of their offense, that Brunson gets frustrated and sometimes taken out of his game by the constant pounding with no foul calls, that OG with the ball in his hands is nothing to worry about due to less than a fully refined game around the basket. The real story is whether the Knicks (particularly Towns) have the mental toughness to get through the gauntlet of physicality that awaits them, and whether Hart can stay out of his own head long enough to continue to be a strong net positive. Having some real (not fake) tough dudes like Alvarado, Clarkson and Deuce should help, but I hope that Coach Brown really understands that force must be met with force, since the only way to stare down a bully is to stay disciplined and match their physicality, and that he MUST get up and work the malleable referees like his friend Rick Carlisle does instead of sitting passively and constantly spitting into a Dixie cup. Can "Nice Guys" finish first? Do they want it enough to do what it takes, and not take any crap from opponents? Nobody knows for sure.
I honestly don't get this whole "the book on the Knicks is you can be physical with them." Aside from Detroit this year when has that happened? Not in the playoffs last year. Not when they are beating Denver two times, or San Antonio multiple times, or any number of quality teams. I honestly think that narrative is bullshit. Can you get in Karl's head a little? Sure. Does Josh get in his own head sometimes? Sure.
This whole narrative that the Knicks are soft is just dumb. For all the Detroit talk, let's see you win a fucking playoff series first before you are allowed to say anything.
Makes me so angry sometimes. JB is tough. Josh is tough. Mikal legit never misses a game. Mitch is tough. Deuce is tough. OG is tough. Fuck outta here with this nonsense.
I'm with you. The core is a bunch of nice guys, but equating that to being "soft" is stupid. Everyone throwing that label around works at a computer, types words and/or shouts nonsense for their careers.
so as someone who works at a computer for a living I don't know if I'm with you on that. My point is that there is actually zero proof or evidence of this team being soft. Quite the contrary actually. Hence why this whole narrative is bullshit. As to the latest perpetrator - Josh Minot - try doing anything in your NBA career before you put KAT's name in your mouth. Or should I say before you put 6-time all-star, 3-time All NBA KAT's name.
Oh, and on the point of them being nice, I think that's great. For example, Kobe in his playing days was a straight up dick and he gets lionized for it which is a whole other issue these days. You don't have to be a dick to be great, plenty of example out there.
Lol im not knocking that, I work from home, at a computer for a living. My point is, the people labeling them soft don't have skin in the game, they're keyboard warriors or something akin to Stephen A. Smith.
Yeah I'm with you, I actually admire them being "nice" or whatever. People just equate a propensity to get into scuffles as tough. Kobe and mj were tough...and they were assholes. Plenty of champs who were "tough" and came off "nice".
Brown said in his post gamer he didn't know it was a 6 game winning streak. Let's hope he wasn't being serious about that! Let's also hope they can maintain a level of play so that the April 9th game vs the Celtics has meaning! Hats off to Tyler Kolek, but besides that, let's move onto the Pelicans (should be the Jazz) tomorrow! (Kudos to you Jon for having the ability to write a lengthy & informative article about this game!). #LGK
I would be shocked if that game didn't have meaning
Maybe Utah can change their name to the “Secret lives of Mormon wives” and New Orleans can have the jazz back
I think they’ll take on the old Ute moniker. The Utah Utes. As Fred Gwynn aptly said, “ what’s a Ute?”
along with A Few Good Men, the movie most responsible for making me go to law school
Lol given how sloppy those wins were, I'm sure it was hard for him to believe.
When it comes to Brown, anything that he does or says is open for conjecture!
Mo back over 40% from 3 for the season
You love to see it
Call me crazy but I’d keep this team together they seem to be getting better every year
not crazy, but the playoffs will determine whether that actually happens
Oh one thought about the Wizards game … that game was just like every other game we half-assed with one exception: our shots were falling. Hit us with another inextricable 20% 3 pt shooting game from the team and it looks like a couple of other games we clutched pearls over.