Restocked the stock of second round picks. Everyone is disappointed they didn't get Reed, Evans or Thomas and I get it.
But they're going to stay under the apron for at least one more year and I think that is the correct move. We may have to wait awhile now as Robinson will take his time searching for the best deal knowing what the Knicks can offer.
I continue to believe, or at least hope, that all this talk about the second apron is one part on negotiating ploy with players and a second part a chance for Dolan to go over the apron later and show what a hero he is.
The beef stew trade can be used by Leon to show yet another way to get rid of salary if a team has ample second round draft picks to use. We certainly have second round draft picks.
The problem is that there seem to be more obvious replacements for shamet, including more time for McBride and Clarkson and maybe Nickel, as well as free agents like Hardaway and Trent. The replacement pool for Mitch seems to be awfully lean. Andre Drummond, anyone?
Well I'm somewhat cross EYED between watching the draft for the last two days and watching the Yankees cause something has to give between Mitch and Shamet so I may as well join the schizophrenia and become cross eyed. There were plenty of bigs and even centers that could've been drafted and Ken is absolutely right. Easier to replace Shamet although I'd hate to cause he deserves a spot than Robinson. I still can't believe that LEON doesn't have a Plan B if Robinson bolts to a logical spot like the Lakers for BENJAMIN's. I don't think Drummond is the answer. He will find someone more like Alvarado and we'll all say boy he's brilliant. One can only hope. As to watching players slip by I'm still scratching my head unless as I said there is a Plan B.
I think they had a handshake (pun intended) gentleman’s agreement with Mitch that they wouldn’t divulge how he punched someone or something so as not to impact his FA knowing they were going to let him walk. If they intended to resign him they would’ve shared the story publicly to diminish his value. Mitch is a goner. I think they’ll move Dadiet for salary relief. Resign Shamet. Give Alvarado more years for less annual value. Attach Deuce (most likely) and/or picks for a viable backup center. Count on more minutes for Kolek & Mo.
If we take a step back and think about the playoff rotation, it was difficult to find minutes for all of Jose, Deuce, Shamet and Clarkson off the bench in the same games. Jose got a DNP in game 1 vs the Hawks for example. But, Deuce couldn't run the offense as the backup PG and Jose gradually returned and became a fixture through the rest of the playoffs. The first action of the FO was to get Mo to commit to re-sign. So, I think that means the FO and MB want to get him more minutes. Kolek shot 38.6% from 3 last year, can run the offense as a back up PG and is the same size as Deuce. Deuce also wants an extension. We just drafted two players with similar skills sets to Deuce / Shamet. I saw on X somewhere that Jack Kayil and Pacome have the same agent and he and Hukporti are both from Germany. CP and Begley commented that the FO remains high on Pacome. In a money constrained environment, it feels to me like you can only justify one of Deuce or Shamet returning since all the other backup guards / wings are on lower deals.
My theory of the case is that all of the maneuvering last night was to accumulate second round picks and cash so we can send Deuce to the Pelicans for Missi. Interestingly, Missi is also from Europe. I would assume Huk comes back as well to give us 3 centers.
Then, I think we have about $6 million available for Shamet and JC can come back on the veterans minimum. But, I was thinking that the FO really valued Yabu last year and may want another conceptual 4/5 that can shoot to space the floor. I could see them offering Mamukelashvili the TPMLE and bringing back JC on the minimum.
Also, after seeing the madness in the garden during the finals and the parade, I bet there are some interesting veterans who may want to come ring chasing.
Something like that has to be up. They aren't going to be able to pay Duece next season and Missi doesn't need to get paid until the season after that when the club is going to be in the 2nd apron anyway unless the get rid of one or more of the starting five.
Can fathom how they would not have come away with one (or more) bigs last night if they didn't already have something lined up.
Anybody worried that drafting a 6'6" sharpshooter with defensive chops means that Landry Shamet will be taking his talents elsewhere? (Love that guy, he deserves to get paid, but I do still kinda want to run it all back.)
To me, trading Ugonna Detroit for nothing but money was the oddest move of the night. I don’t think the Knicks are high on him but it seems like Leon was favor broking there!
Looking at the players they brought in, it does seem they are filling in behind skillsets that Deuce and Shamet possess.
I think they are trying to offer Mitch the absolute highest offer they can to compete with higher offers he’ll get from teams like the Lakers or Kings. Maybe those teams offer him $15 million per and the Knicks might offer him $10 mil. Mitch might be upset that they won’t go over the second apron to keep him but if he sees them making all this effort to get his offer as high as they can, including prioritizing him over Shamet, maybe he takes it rather than going to California, far from his home and comfort zone.
Maybe they structure the contract ascending and give him 4 years because they do plan to go over the apron 2 years from now when Brunson’s max starts.
Maybe they have a trade set up in case Mitch leaves in which they trade Deuce and a few picks to New Orleans for Yves Missi.
Who knows but yesterday I thought Mitch was gone for sure and today I’m thinking they’re making a serious attempt to bring him back.
The Knicks have a decent, if unorthodox, record when it comes to the draft. At this point, I'll trust them. (After last year's draft, Hollinger wrote, "there seems little chance Diawara will play in the NBA.") The seconds they picked up feel juicy, too.
I also find it fascinating that they decided against drafting a big. It still feels most likely that they will have to let Mitch go, but maybe this gives them just enough wiggle room to resign Shamet and add a big at slightly above the vet minimum. Offloading Dadiet would be nice, too, though I don't like the idea of having to use picks to do it unless there's some way they can get both Shamet and Robinson back...
I'll tell you this: if there's a way, Aller knows how. He, perhaps more than anyone in this FO, has earned our trust.
I think Mitch is gone, they bring back Shamet and sign either Landale, Mark Williams or Nick Richards to a 2 year deal. Because (insert Windhorst GIF) the Center free-agent market is going to be jam packed over the next several seasons with the following names as backups for KAT who I'm pretty sure we will figure out a way to extend and keep.
Like they knew who was going to replace Thibs? Although I guess that worked out alright. The problem is that there are few free agent centers and to trade for one except Missi we would need some matching salary which we don’t really have. In fact, a resigned Mitch would likely be our best trading chip in terms of a substantial dollar amount to trade. It is another reason I am not worried about the second apron. The main penalty of a team that is not a repeater is inability to aggregate salaries in a trade. We don’t have salaries to aggregate. It is either one of the core five or trying to combine deuce, Kolek and Dadiet to get up to a sizable number. And three for one trades are not that easy.
Exactly Ken. Dolan made the second apron out to be the bogeyman. Which it is if you spend multiple years over the second apron cap. But just one year does not carry many penalties other than a higher tax for Dolan to pay. And since the Knicks tickets are the highest in the league, and the MSG network so profitable, paying a higher tax number should not be an issue.
There are ways including trading Bridges for picks. . . .If we were able to bring back the championship squad and didn’t at least make the finals, it would be time for more significant changes anyway.
Are your attenae all the way for a possible trade between now and October. To fill in for Mitch? When you said last night that you were fascinated about the Knicks trading the big they got late. I first thought they might be intent to bring back Mitch. Even with all of the work they did to save space in a draft that had talent. They still have a long ways to go to bring back Mitch. If anything they seem closer to bringing Shamet back as of now. Are you suspecting that as far as long term replacement of Mitch they are prepping themselves for the trade market??
If they spent a total of $35 on Mitch and Shamet ( which I reckon is high), I have them at $17 million over, including Clarkson at vet minimum again. Depending on the final numbers for Diawara and Jose and whether Huk takes the qualifying offer, it could change a little. Trading Deuce and Pacome removes about $8 million, but there would have to be replacements and the minimum salary is $1,272,870. So the net is $6.5 million. So we would go over this year unless Mitch and Shamet totaled $18 million or if Deuce and Pacome are gone, $24.5.
So I assume we would go over if we retain both, but I think we ought to be able to get under the following year.
Mitch is a luxury given that his availability for the playoffs is a coin flip at best. A luxury that the Knicks can not afford.
The money right now is all in the five starters ($191.7 million this season, $204.5 million next season) and will not ease up until one or more of them depart.
The championship window for this core looks to have 4 more years to run. ... and in years 3 and 4 of that window (when Brunson and OF re-up) there seems no way to stay out of the 2nd apron without breaking up the core prematurely.
So ... if the Knicks sign Mitch to a multi year deal paying him in the neighborhood of $15 million per year - they will be above the second apron for the next 4 years. The penalties for that would be horrific.
They are not going to do that.
Then what can they pay Mitch?
If the Knicks roster 14 players including the two rookies and basically pay everyone at minimum rates - goodbye Shamet, Deuce, Alvarado and Dadiet - they could free up approximately $11 million for Mitch - which is barely 2/3 of this past year's salary. If they keep Deuce and Alvarado, that goes down to about $7.5 million. Either way, that is not going to be enough.
The Knicks will not re-sign Mitch this year.
... nor is it likely they will be able to re-sign Deuce after next season.
Then why on earth did they not draft or keep a big (or two) yesterday?
There must be a plan. Either some veteran they are confident is about to come free ... or a trade. ... or both.
How about this? Trade Deuce and Dadiet for Missi, plus or minus whatever misc. will get it done.
So ... 1) remove Mitch, Deuce and Dadiet from the roster. 2) Add Missi and McCullar to the roster. 3) Sign both draft picks to 2 ways ...
... and that leaves some $7-7.5 million for Shamet and a 15th roster spot.
Stays under the 2nd Apron, leaves roster and salary flexibility, gets in a young big who won't need to get paid until 2028 when the Knicks are going into the 2nd apron regardless and sends out two players who they aren't going to be able to pay plus Dadiet.
Maybe it is not this, but there has to be SOMETHING that they have already lined up. Can't believe they will go into next season with only two bigs and no salary flexibility.
Wow, you made the most head spinning 2 days of drafting seem understandable. You are the Champion and MVP, of the English Language.
Ha...I wish. But thank you, I do enjoy this stuff for whatever reason
Restocked the stock of second round picks. Everyone is disappointed they didn't get Reed, Evans or Thomas and I get it.
But they're going to stay under the apron for at least one more year and I think that is the correct move. We may have to wait awhile now as Robinson will take his time searching for the best deal knowing what the Knicks can offer.
I continue to believe, or at least hope, that all this talk about the second apron is one part on negotiating ploy with players and a second part a chance for Dolan to go over the apron later and show what a hero he is.
The beef stew trade can be used by Leon to show yet another way to get rid of salary if a team has ample second round draft picks to use. We certainly have second round draft picks.
The problem is that there seem to be more obvious replacements for shamet, including more time for McBride and Clarkson and maybe Nickel, as well as free agents like Hardaway and Trent. The replacement pool for Mitch seems to be awfully lean. Andre Drummond, anyone?
Well I'm somewhat cross EYED between watching the draft for the last two days and watching the Yankees cause something has to give between Mitch and Shamet so I may as well join the schizophrenia and become cross eyed. There were plenty of bigs and even centers that could've been drafted and Ken is absolutely right. Easier to replace Shamet although I'd hate to cause he deserves a spot than Robinson. I still can't believe that LEON doesn't have a Plan B if Robinson bolts to a logical spot like the Lakers for BENJAMIN's. I don't think Drummond is the answer. He will find someone more like Alvarado and we'll all say boy he's brilliant. One can only hope. As to watching players slip by I'm still scratching my head unless as I said there is a Plan B.
There’s a plan B, I’m sure!
I think they had a handshake (pun intended) gentleman’s agreement with Mitch that they wouldn’t divulge how he punched someone or something so as not to impact his FA knowing they were going to let him walk. If they intended to resign him they would’ve shared the story publicly to diminish his value. Mitch is a goner. I think they’ll move Dadiet for salary relief. Resign Shamet. Give Alvarado more years for less annual value. Attach Deuce (most likely) and/or picks for a viable backup center. Count on more minutes for Kolek & Mo.
makes some sense to me
If we take a step back and think about the playoff rotation, it was difficult to find minutes for all of Jose, Deuce, Shamet and Clarkson off the bench in the same games. Jose got a DNP in game 1 vs the Hawks for example. But, Deuce couldn't run the offense as the backup PG and Jose gradually returned and became a fixture through the rest of the playoffs. The first action of the FO was to get Mo to commit to re-sign. So, I think that means the FO and MB want to get him more minutes. Kolek shot 38.6% from 3 last year, can run the offense as a back up PG and is the same size as Deuce. Deuce also wants an extension. We just drafted two players with similar skills sets to Deuce / Shamet. I saw on X somewhere that Jack Kayil and Pacome have the same agent and he and Hukporti are both from Germany. CP and Begley commented that the FO remains high on Pacome. In a money constrained environment, it feels to me like you can only justify one of Deuce or Shamet returning since all the other backup guards / wings are on lower deals.
My theory of the case is that all of the maneuvering last night was to accumulate second round picks and cash so we can send Deuce to the Pelicans for Missi. Interestingly, Missi is also from Europe. I would assume Huk comes back as well to give us 3 centers.
Then, I think we have about $6 million available for Shamet and JC can come back on the veterans minimum. But, I was thinking that the FO really valued Yabu last year and may want another conceptual 4/5 that can shoot to space the floor. I could see them offering Mamukelashvili the TPMLE and bringing back JC on the minimum.
Also, after seeing the madness in the garden during the finals and the parade, I bet there are some interesting veterans who may want to come ring chasing.
Something like that has to be up. They aren't going to be able to pay Duece next season and Missi doesn't need to get paid until the season after that when the club is going to be in the 2nd apron anyway unless the get rid of one or more of the starting five.
Can fathom how they would not have come away with one (or more) bigs last night if they didn't already have something lined up.
Anybody worried that drafting a 6'6" sharpshooter with defensive chops means that Landry Shamet will be taking his talents elsewhere? (Love that guy, he deserves to get paid, but I do still kinda want to run it all back.)
To me, trading Ugonna Detroit for nothing but money was the oddest move of the night. I don’t think the Knicks are high on him but it seems like Leon was favor broking there!
Looking at the players they brought in, it does seem they are filling in behind skillsets that Deuce and Shamet possess.
I think they are trying to offer Mitch the absolute highest offer they can to compete with higher offers he’ll get from teams like the Lakers or Kings. Maybe those teams offer him $15 million per and the Knicks might offer him $10 mil. Mitch might be upset that they won’t go over the second apron to keep him but if he sees them making all this effort to get his offer as high as they can, including prioritizing him over Shamet, maybe he takes it rather than going to California, far from his home and comfort zone.
Maybe they structure the contract ascending and give him 4 years because they do plan to go over the apron 2 years from now when Brunson’s max starts.
Maybe they have a trade set up in case Mitch leaves in which they trade Deuce and a few picks to New Orleans for Yves Missi.
Who knows but yesterday I thought Mitch was gone for sure and today I’m thinking they’re making a serious attempt to bring him back.
The Knicks have a decent, if unorthodox, record when it comes to the draft. At this point, I'll trust them. (After last year's draft, Hollinger wrote, "there seems little chance Diawara will play in the NBA.") The seconds they picked up feel juicy, too.
I also find it fascinating that they decided against drafting a big. It still feels most likely that they will have to let Mitch go, but maybe this gives them just enough wiggle room to resign Shamet and add a big at slightly above the vet minimum. Offloading Dadiet would be nice, too, though I don't like the idea of having to use picks to do it unless there's some way they can get both Shamet and Robinson back...
I'll tell you this: if there's a way, Aller knows how. He, perhaps more than anyone in this FO, has earned our trust.
I think Mitch is gone, they bring back Shamet and sign either Landale, Mark Williams or Nick Richards to a 2 year deal. Because (insert Windhorst GIF) the Center free-agent market is going to be jam packed over the next several seasons with the following names as backups for KAT who I'm pretty sure we will figure out a way to extend and keep.
Summer 2027 - unrestricted
iHart / Goga / Bball Paul / Mamu / Queta
Summer 2028 - unrestricted
Claxton / Beef Stew / Okongwu / Cappella / Huff/ Bona
Not major stars but any of these guys is capable of playing 12-16 minutes per game to varying degrees of success.
I agree with the point that Leon knows exactly who his backup center will be. If there were any doubt, he would have drafted one. Patience is a virtue
Like they knew who was going to replace Thibs? Although I guess that worked out alright. The problem is that there are few free agent centers and to trade for one except Missi we would need some matching salary which we don’t really have. In fact, a resigned Mitch would likely be our best trading chip in terms of a substantial dollar amount to trade. It is another reason I am not worried about the second apron. The main penalty of a team that is not a repeater is inability to aggregate salaries in a trade. We don’t have salaries to aggregate. It is either one of the core five or trying to combine deuce, Kolek and Dadiet to get up to a sizable number. And three for one trades are not that easy.
Exactly Ken. Dolan made the second apron out to be the bogeyman. Which it is if you spend multiple years over the second apron cap. But just one year does not carry many penalties other than a higher tax for Dolan to pay. And since the Knicks tickets are the highest in the league, and the MSG network so profitable, paying a higher tax number should not be an issue.
There are ways including trading Bridges for picks. . . .If we were able to bring back the championship squad and didn’t at least make the finals, it would be time for more significant changes anyway.
How would they get below the second apron after one year, unless they sign Mitch to a one year deal?
I tried to answer your question below and also autocorrect dubbed you Petronius. I guess there are not a lot of Peterobin’s out there.
Are your attenae all the way for a possible trade between now and October. To fill in for Mitch? When you said last night that you were fascinated about the Knicks trading the big they got late. I first thought they might be intent to bring back Mitch. Even with all of the work they did to save space in a draft that had talent. They still have a long ways to go to bring back Mitch. If anything they seem closer to bringing Shamet back as of now. Are you suspecting that as far as long term replacement of Mitch they are prepping themselves for the trade market??
I think they probably have someone in mind via trade, but also confidence they can get a warm body in FA
Everything is going to be alright. Rock a bye. Rock a bye lol lol.
I should add that I would be shocked if they got $25 million between them and so you can drop all those numbers by $10 million more likely than not.
If they spent a total of $35 on Mitch and Shamet ( which I reckon is high), I have them at $17 million over, including Clarkson at vet minimum again. Depending on the final numbers for Diawara and Jose and whether Huk takes the qualifying offer, it could change a little. Trading Deuce and Pacome removes about $8 million, but there would have to be replacements and the minimum salary is $1,272,870. So the net is $6.5 million. So we would go over this year unless Mitch and Shamet totaled $18 million or if Deuce and Pacome are gone, $24.5.
So I assume we would go over if we retain both, but I think we ought to be able to get under the following year.
Mitch is a luxury given that his availability for the playoffs is a coin flip at best. A luxury that the Knicks can not afford.
The money right now is all in the five starters ($191.7 million this season, $204.5 million next season) and will not ease up until one or more of them depart.
The championship window for this core looks to have 4 more years to run. ... and in years 3 and 4 of that window (when Brunson and OF re-up) there seems no way to stay out of the 2nd apron without breaking up the core prematurely.
So ... if the Knicks sign Mitch to a multi year deal paying him in the neighborhood of $15 million per year - they will be above the second apron for the next 4 years. The penalties for that would be horrific.
They are not going to do that.
Then what can they pay Mitch?
If the Knicks roster 14 players including the two rookies and basically pay everyone at minimum rates - goodbye Shamet, Deuce, Alvarado and Dadiet - they could free up approximately $11 million for Mitch - which is barely 2/3 of this past year's salary. If they keep Deuce and Alvarado, that goes down to about $7.5 million. Either way, that is not going to be enough.
The Knicks will not re-sign Mitch this year.
... nor is it likely they will be able to re-sign Deuce after next season.
Then why on earth did they not draft or keep a big (or two) yesterday?
There must be a plan. Either some veteran they are confident is about to come free ... or a trade. ... or both.
How about this? Trade Deuce and Dadiet for Missi, plus or minus whatever misc. will get it done.
So ... 1) remove Mitch, Deuce and Dadiet from the roster. 2) Add Missi and McCullar to the roster. 3) Sign both draft picks to 2 ways ...
... and that leaves some $7-7.5 million for Shamet and a 15th roster spot.
Stays under the 2nd Apron, leaves roster and salary flexibility, gets in a young big who won't need to get paid until 2028 when the Knicks are going into the 2nd apron regardless and sends out two players who they aren't going to be able to pay plus Dadiet.
Maybe it is not this, but there has to be SOMETHING that they have already lined up. Can't believe they will go into next season with only two bigs and no salary flexibility.
I see autocorrect did not like Peterobin and made him Petronius. Apologies.