Raise the Roof
What the Obi/Randle debate really says about Tom Thibodeau's values.
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We’re ending the week with the final Knick You Knew of the offseason, courtesy of Ray Marcano. But first, the news…
🗣 News & Notes ✍️
🏀 As we continue the Training Camp of Our Discon-Thibodeau, we got some more thoughts from the head man yesterday regarding the possibility of an Obi / Randle pairing.
Talk about leaning into the bit.
The extended rationale Thibs gave yesterday for why he isn’t keen on putting his two power forwards on the floor at the same time - that many of their positive numbers came in garbage time - underscores a point I wanted to make following up on yesterday’s newsletter.
I painted a picture yesterday of a coach whose decisions were driven by the need to win at all costs, and a front office essentially complicit in that approach. This isn’t really the full story though. As a few readers pointed out, Thibs isn’t at loggerheads with the fans over his need to win vs fans wanting him to embrace other priorities; it’s more about valuing the floor versus shooting for the ceiling.
Thibodeau, more than being a win-now coach, is a high floor coach - maybe the highest floor coach in the NBA. If competence begins with understanding and executing basic defensive principles at a high level, there’s arguably no one who gets a roster to that point faster and more effectively than Thibs. This was seen in spades when he took home Coach of the Year in 2021, but perhaps even more so last year, when he still managed to ring out 37 wins in what was an objectively painful season.
Shying away from a Randle / Toppin pairing is yet another way for him to ensure the floor remains high, and he’s not wrong about that fact. The pairing does struggle on the glass, there is no obvious rim protector, and the offensive benefits aren’t so obvious to make it a no-brainer trade off. By the same token, it’s hard to argue that this team’s ceiling wouldn’t be raised by giving the pairing a real shot to perform in a significant sample size. As in, they need enough time to develop a rhythm with each other, to see what works and what doesn’t, and explore what ancillary benefits might be uncovered through sheer luck. Oh, and 8th pick in the 2020 Draft might reveal himself to be a far more significant asset than he’s currently viewed around the league.
In more or less admitting that he saw what he needed to see from them last year to be predisposed not to use it again this season, Thibodeau is telling us he still values keeping the floor high and is less concerned about the ceiling. Not that we don’t still have questions. For example, is this an across the board thought? Or might he show an ability to experiment in other areas (i.e., letting IQ run point) that aren’t such egregious violations of his basketball ethos?
We’ll have to wait and see, although I have to imagine this gets worse before it gets better, especially with New York’s unrelenting early schedule. On the bright side, it’s probably a good sign that we’re even having this conversation. Two years ago, there was no team in the league more in need of a stable floor than the Knicks. Thibodeau provided exactly that, and he was rightly praised for that accomplishment. Now though, it feels as if we’ve moved beyond that initial need and are ready for the next step. Is that true? And if so, can he take them there? Or is he, as many have theorized for some time, the perfect coach to have before the coach who takes you all the way?
We’ll find out soon enough. Now please, can we get to the games? If poring over these press conferences isn’t seventh-circle-of-hell level torture, I don’t know what is.
🏀 Injury update: Quentin Grimes missed his second consecutive day of practice with a sore foot. Evan Fournier also sat out. Thibodeau said he's a little nicked up but it was mostly just to get him rest.
🏀 Non-Knicks news: Lonzo Ball is expected to be out several months following knee surgery on Wednesday. It’s another tough break for the Bulls guard who helped lead Chicago to the best record in the East while he was healthy last season.
I mention the news here first because the Bulls are arguably New York’s primary competition for play-in position next season. Chicago has a preseason over under of 42.5 while New York is sitting at 39.5. Everyone else is at least three games above or below, respectively.
If you’re a more pessimistic sort, if the Bulls are able to withstand the loss of Ball and the Knicks fall out of the race before the trade deadline, you’d think that Chicago would be a natural trade destination for one-time MVP Derrick Rose. The salary matching situation isn’t ideal, but where there’s a will, there’s a way.
A Knick You Knew: Bill Hosket Jr.
by Ray Marcano
This next Knick You Knew comes from basketball royalty, has been a champion at every level, and is a true icon in his home city and state.
Wilmer "Bill" Fredrick Hosket Jr. was born December 20, 1946, in Dayton, Ohio.
He had big shoes to fill.
His father, a 6-foot-5 center, led Stivers High School to three consecutive state championships (1928-1930), and he was named to the All-Tournament team each year. Dad went to Ohio State and won a Big Ten championship (1933). He played for several early professional teams, including the Dayton Metropolitans, where he was player/coach in the 1935-36 season.
HISTORY: The Mets were a founding member of the Midwest Basketball Conference, a predecessor to the National Basketball League, which later became the NBA. Cool, huh?
His son took a similar path. Hosket Jr. went to Belmont High School, where he led one of Ohio's all-time great high school teams to the 1964 state championship.
Hosket was player of the year, and his teammates included Don May, whom he would play with in the pros, and Ralph Jukkola, the future LSU captain who played with "Pistol" Pete Maravich.
The 6-foot-8-inch, 225-pound Hosket played his three seasons of college ball at Ohio State. (Back then, freshmen couldn't play varsity.)
Over 74 games between 1965 and 1968, Hosket averaged 19.5 points and 12.3 rebounds per game. He led the team in scoring and rebounding in all three seasons, made the All-Big Ten team twice, and was Ohio State's first Academic All-American.
As if that's not enough, he led the 1968 squad --- the Big Ten Champions --- to the NCAA Final Four, where the Buckeyes lost to North Carolina but beat Houston in the third-place game.
Oh, I almost forgot. Hosket played on the 1968 Olympics team that won gold in Mexico and included Jo Jo White and Spencer Haywood, who played for the Knicks for parts of four seasons between 1975 and 1979.
So, by the time he's 21 years old, Hosket already has state, Big Ten, and Olympic championships in addition to a Final Four appearance. Pro basketball came calling when the Knicks selected Hosket with the 10th pick of the 1968 draft, and the Minnesota Pipers of the ABA selected him No. 2 in the first round.
What's a young man to do?
Hosket reasoned he could have made more money with the upstart league, but he chose to sign with the established product, the logical choice for a marketing major.
He joined the Knicks' dream team with Walt "Clyde" Frazier, Dave DeBusschere, Bill Bradley, Willis Reed, Cazzie Russell, and others. The Knicks even drafted Hosket's high school teammate, May, in the third round with the 30th pick.
Hosket played a small but critical role in the 1970 NBA Finals. He didn't play the first four games but was pressed into action in games 5 and 6.
In game 5, Willis Reed suffered a thigh injury that would take him out of the game. Coach Red Holtzman played Nate Bowman and Hosket (four minutes) at center before turning to the 6-foot-6 DeBusschere to battle the 7-foot-2 Wilt Chamberlain. The Stilt scored 22 points, but the Knicks won 107-100 to take a 3-2 lead.
Hosket spelled the starters in game six and provided five valuable minutes off the bench. The Knicks lost 135-113, but we know what happened in game 7. Reed drags his one good leg onto the court, the crowd erupts in loud noise I've given up trying to describe, and the Knicks won the championship.
And Hosket got a ring! So now he's a high school, Olympic, and NBA champion who's part of Ohio basketball nobility.
And just like that, his time in New York City ended.
The NBA expanded in 1970, bringing in the Buffalo Braves, Cleveland Cavaliers, and Portland Trail Blazers. The Braves, run by former Knicks general manager Eddie Donovan, took Hosket (and May!) in the draft. The Cavs took former St. John's product John Warren.
Hosket played two seasons with the Braves, averaging a career-high 8.1 points and 5.8 rebounds in 1970-21 and 5 points and 2.8 RPG in 1971-72.
He had, arguably, his best individual performance when playing for Buffalo. Against Philadelphia on November 3, 1970, he scored 18 points on 8 of 10 shooting and grabbed eight rebounds in 22 minutes.
After the season, the Braves allowed Hosket to become a free agent. He never played professional basketball again.
But he certainly blazed one hell of a trail.
Hosket served three terms on the U.S. Olympic Committee. He was inducted into the Ohio State Hall of Fame in 1978 and the Ohio Basketball Coaches Association Hall of Fame in 1987. In 1998, he became the first executive director of the Ohio High School Athletic Association Foundation.
In 2002, the Ohio High School Athletic Association presented Hosket with its Ethics and Integrity Award, its highest honor.
Today, at 76, he's a board member with the Ohio Basketball Hall of Fame and a principal with Hosket Ulen Insurance Solutions.
Wow.
Bronx native Ray Marcano has been an award-winning journalist for over 40 years, many of which have been spent with the Dayton Daily News. He is a Fulbright fellow and the former president of the Society of Professional Journalists, the largest journalism organization in the United States, as well as a visiting professor at Wright State University. He is also author of the The Bourbon Resource on Substack.
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That’s it for today! If you enjoy this newsletter and like the Mets, don’t forget to subscribe to JB’s Metropolitan, or his hockey newsletter, Isles Fix. See y’all soon! #BlackLivesMatter
Obviously they didn't know what Randle would be when they drafted Obi, but now he is blocking Obi. Maybe they overplayed their hand this summer by holding out for a better return on Randle, IDK, but the worst possible outcome is having them both on the roster for the entire season.
Until the Lakers move Westbrook, there's always a possibility of making a move there, but the chances of that happening are dwindling.
Hey Mac great work as always. I have a question Id like to pose. Do you see any parallels between the Crowder-Cam & the Fourn-Grimes situation?
Wouldn’t it make more sense that since we the NYK, aren’t* contending we would take a shot to run Grimes out there and see what we got; juxtaposed to the Suns who are contending-should would want to run Crowder out there (not Cam) since they are shooting for a chip right now?
Its frustrating that the Suns are employing a development strategy (knowing Crowder is going to be a FA influences their approach as well) while the Knicks are in a “mediocre now” team building approach.
Cheers to another season of mediocrity purgatory.