You can put me squarely in the camp of people who both loved IQ and never thought it would work with Brunson long term. I personally see Quick as a 6th man on a championship caliber team but I also hope he gets healthy can proves me wrong because he's so easy to root for.
You can put me at the same time in the camp of people who love OG (I keep replaying the tip in a video narrated in eight or nine different languages, can't get enough over sportscasters going apey on the #HandOfGod) and the camp of people who were heartbroken when IQ was traded to get him.
As I've said before, I was lucky enough to be in the Boston Garden for that aforementioned 55 minute masterpiece of a game. Nerve wracking while it was happening, but as with the first two of the 20 best games of the Leon Rose era, it was one of the first rumblings that this was a team that would find ways to win, not secure ways to lose. And I loved watching him dancing and prancing on that hated parquet. Miss that guy to death, and wish he could have been our sixth man (and am already mentally preparing myself for the heartbreak of losing Deuce in a trade, for similar reasons).
Remembering the day the Knicks moved RJ and IQ for OG. The initials trade. It's my fault, but I did not recognize the greatness of OG and I was angry and disappointed. These two kids were our future. Here go the Knicks again, ripping my heart out. Then curb stomping.
As Stephen A. Smith famously said, "I have never been happier about being 100 percent wrong in my life."
RIP Nelly. On an entire family vacation to Maui around 2010, dad and the four boys took the road to Hana and the memorable hike to the waterfall. On the way back we stopped in a coffee shop in Paia. Who do we run into but Don Nelson? Swell guy. We talked Knicks, Celtics and family vacations. I think he actually enjoyed the conversation that followed and wasn't just being nice.
Oooh. This is a tough one Mac. We all have bad memories of the Marbury era but looking back I honestly believe the issue was expectations and not Marbury per se. Leave aside the off court stuff. Crimes and Misdemeanors is still one of the greatest films ever made despite Woody Allen being a horrific human and Marbury is no Woody Allen.
Marbury was already past being thought of as a franchise star. That's why the cost to get him was "very good starter" and not "superstar" level. And Marbury played very well. We discussed this last time but if you simply look at what he did you see a player that absolutely could have been the starter on a very good team.
To IQ this is the other huge failure of the Thibs era. I also believed you couldn't play a short combo guard as your 2 next to Brunson all game but he simply never played enough and if Thibs was only going to play him 21 mpg then you couldn't pay him $35 million. Ultimately it worked out perfectly for all involved but it felt bad at the time.
Marbury was far more accomplished as a knick but the winning they did with IQ has to count for something. This is probably the correct order to list them but you could honestly shuffle it up in any order.
Don Nelson was one of my most favorite coaches to cover when I was an NBA beat reporter. He was super smart, really really funny and just knew so much about the game and was reliably one of the best sources i had at the time for evaluating talent. It’s probably universally accepted that he was way better at drafting players than coaching them, but that is not a big criticism because the bar was high back in those days. RIP to one of the good guys.
I would like to see the full list of 100 and where you place Jerry Lucas, Bill Bradley and Cazzie Russell. Any room for Phil Jackson? He was instrumental off the bench as a sub for Willis Reed in the 1970 championship final against the Lakers.
Non hall of fame bench players from the 70-73 era who deserve mention (I forget if any have already made the list) include Cazzie Russell, Dave Stallworth ( for Game 5 if nothing else), Dean the Dream, Mike Riordan ( for getting traded for Monroe, though he also put together a pretty good career), and John Gianelli. Henry Bibby was on the 73 team but I don’t recall if he contributed much. Hawthorne Wingo might deserve it for having one of the best names ever. I don’t think the 70-73 Knicks Peter mentioned ever got run in a significant game playoff or otherwise. They did show up for the team photo.
We all loved Wingo, but Dancin' Harry probably contributed more to that '73 chip than Hawthorne did. Bibby played because he was sound fundamentally and well trained at UCLA, but does not belong on any top 100 lists other than NBA father/son combos.
The Knicks are 80 years old. The fact that so many of the players you list played in the last five years tells you everything you need to know about the history of this team. I mean Alvarado has been here for five minutes. No room for Ken Bannister or Bill Hosket? Mel Davis or John Warren?
Can I pose a q for whenever you next do a mailbag?
Now that some time has passed, and in light of no other teams entering the second apron either (and in fact teams like OKC also losing rotation players to it), should we feel any differently than we did 6 weeks ago about the Knicks deciding not to enter the SA to resign Mitch? Is it maybe the right decision from a basketball standpoint?
You can put me squarely in the camp of people who both loved IQ and never thought it would work with Brunson long term. I personally see Quick as a 6th man on a championship caliber team but I also hope he gets healthy can proves me wrong because he's so easy to root for.
You can put me at the same time in the camp of people who love OG (I keep replaying the tip in a video narrated in eight or nine different languages, can't get enough over sportscasters going apey on the #HandOfGod) and the camp of people who were heartbroken when IQ was traded to get him.
As I've said before, I was lucky enough to be in the Boston Garden for that aforementioned 55 minute masterpiece of a game. Nerve wracking while it was happening, but as with the first two of the 20 best games of the Leon Rose era, it was one of the first rumblings that this was a team that would find ways to win, not secure ways to lose. And I loved watching him dancing and prancing on that hated parquet. Miss that guy to death, and wish he could have been our sixth man (and am already mentally preparing myself for the heartbreak of losing Deuce in a trade, for similar reasons).
I am not in the camp of people who miss RJ.
Remembering the day the Knicks moved RJ and IQ for OG. The initials trade. It's my fault, but I did not recognize the greatness of OG and I was angry and disappointed. These two kids were our future. Here go the Knicks again, ripping my heart out. Then curb stomping.
As Stephen A. Smith famously said, "I have never been happier about being 100 percent wrong in my life."
RIP Nelly. On an entire family vacation to Maui around 2010, dad and the four boys took the road to Hana and the memorable hike to the waterfall. On the way back we stopped in a coffee shop in Paia. Who do we run into but Don Nelson? Swell guy. We talked Knicks, Celtics and family vacations. I think he actually enjoyed the conversation that followed and wasn't just being nice.
Oooh. This is a tough one Mac. We all have bad memories of the Marbury era but looking back I honestly believe the issue was expectations and not Marbury per se. Leave aside the off court stuff. Crimes and Misdemeanors is still one of the greatest films ever made despite Woody Allen being a horrific human and Marbury is no Woody Allen.
Marbury was already past being thought of as a franchise star. That's why the cost to get him was "very good starter" and not "superstar" level. And Marbury played very well. We discussed this last time but if you simply look at what he did you see a player that absolutely could have been the starter on a very good team.
To IQ this is the other huge failure of the Thibs era. I also believed you couldn't play a short combo guard as your 2 next to Brunson all game but he simply never played enough and if Thibs was only going to play him 21 mpg then you couldn't pay him $35 million. Ultimately it worked out perfectly for all involved but it felt bad at the time.
Marbury was far more accomplished as a knick but the winning they did with IQ has to count for something. This is probably the correct order to list them but you could honestly shuffle it up in any order.
Good take, Pliny.
Don Nelson was one of my most favorite coaches to cover when I was an NBA beat reporter. He was super smart, really really funny and just knew so much about the game and was reliably one of the best sources i had at the time for evaluating talent. It’s probably universally accepted that he was way better at drafting players than coaching them, but that is not a big criticism because the bar was high back in those days. RIP to one of the good guys.
I would like to see the full list of 100 and where you place Jerry Lucas, Bill Bradley and Cazzie Russell. Any room for Phil Jackson? He was instrumental off the bench as a sub for Willis Reed in the 1970 championship final against the Lakers.
Non hall of fame bench players from the 70-73 era who deserve mention (I forget if any have already made the list) include Cazzie Russell, Dave Stallworth ( for Game 5 if nothing else), Dean the Dream, Mike Riordan ( for getting traded for Monroe, though he also put together a pretty good career), and John Gianelli. Henry Bibby was on the 73 team but I don’t recall if he contributed much. Hawthorne Wingo might deserve it for having one of the best names ever. I don’t think the 70-73 Knicks Peter mentioned ever got run in a significant game playoff or otherwise. They did show up for the team photo.
I can’t disagree. But is there a better name than Hawthorne Wingo in Knick history?
We all loved Wingo, but Dancin' Harry probably contributed more to that '73 chip than Hawthorne did. Bibby played because he was sound fundamentally and well trained at UCLA, but does not belong on any top 100 lists other than NBA father/son combos.
The Knicks are 80 years old. The fact that so many of the players you list played in the last five years tells you everything you need to know about the history of this team. I mean Alvarado has been here for five minutes. No room for Ken Bannister or Bill Hosket? Mel Davis or John Warren?
Love this series, thanks.
Can I pose a q for whenever you next do a mailbag?
Now that some time has passed, and in light of no other teams entering the second apron either (and in fact teams like OKC also losing rotation players to it), should we feel any differently than we did 6 weeks ago about the Knicks deciding not to enter the SA to resign Mitch? Is it maybe the right decision from a basketball standpoint?