We all love Deuce. We all loved Mitch too. Unless there is a special codicil in the Collective Bargaining agreement that I am not aware of, there is no practical way they are going to be able to keep Deuce long-term nor should they given the current Apron rules and the fact that Deuce's market value will never be higher (in my view) than it is now. He is a luxury and not a necessity. Please show me where I am wrong. As for Drummond, I agree that his appearance in Vegas is strong evidence of his commitment to be a legit contributor/rotation member. I hope that he is spending significant time in the Fitness Center at the hotel so that he can begin dropping the 20-30 pounds that would help him be a real factor on D. As we have said ad nauseum, the Knicks still will need an athletic 5 who can protect the rim and defend when KAT is not available. That is the only place where our flank is currently exposed to the competition. Brad Stevens made a defensive chess move to put us in this position, and we can argue about the efficacy of that financial decision (especially in light of jettisoning Brown for cap reasons), but he has put is in this box, and it is now our turn to make a move (now, February, whenever Leon decides is appropriate). The good news is that these are all "rich team" problems.
My oldest son gave me the standard fatherly advice when my third-oldest son and I started getting a little too excited about Tyler Nickel's shooting in Summer League: "Don't pay attention to Summer League." Fair enough.
It reminded me of one of my favorite Earl Weaver lines. The legendary Orioles manager used to say, "Never pay attention to statistics in March or September." In other words, don't let tiny sample sizes convince you you've discovered the next Hall of Famer—or the next bust.
So today I'm taking that advice. Instead of overreacting to Summer League box scores, I'd encourage my KFS family to spend an hour watching the excellent 60-minute documentary on this championship seasons available on the Knicks' website (and probably YouTube by now). It's worth every minute.
My favorite moment isn't a dunk, a playoff shot, or even a championship highlight. It's Mike Breen saying: "Life is not perfect, but there are perfect moments." Good grief.
That's one of those lines that transcends basketball. It explains why we care so much in the first place. We're not chasing perfect seasons. We're chasing those fleeting moments that stay with us forever. It's why I am still reliving the threes, the OG tip-in and the magical Jalen trips through the lane a month later. It was perfect.
It's the kind of quote that could make a stone cry.
Safe travels Jon. Although I've already taped the Detroit game I'm not getting excited about summer league but do want to see more from Mo and maybe in your camp that daddy is a lost cause. The deuce question is tough. 33,000 3 years might be better spent. I don't know if they spoke to DeRozan but personally think he may have been a better fit than Clarkson and certainly a more consistent fire power shooter. Both second round draftees may be a surprisingly great surprise. I also think Due the options that stashing Kayril ( phonetic), might not be a bad idea to see how things shake out. Kolek must get more time where there's no sense in keeping him. Still questioning the third center option and Deuce might be part of the solution in a trade but his upside is still very high so I'm watching my own judgment.
Hi Jon, Hope you & Andrew are enjoying your time in Vegas & I hope you guys didn't bet on these Summer Knicks while you are there! lol I don't want to nitpick, but couldn't they, at the very least, add guys to the roster to be competitive? There are 4-5 guys, tops, on the roster that could even go to an NBA camp & 3 were from last years' team & the other 2 are the draft picks. I don't worry about Diawara, because all I have to do is think about Kolek's Summer League performance in 2025 & then his performance in Knicks games that counted. Nickel is a find & I'd like to see him on the 15 (14?) man roster, but it doesn't seem possible. Dadiet still has a lot to prove, although he did have a good game vs Brooklyn, but floundered against the Spurs! Hopefully, they start Kayil this afternoon so we can see him running the point, something the Knicks have been lacking in the first 2 games. Do you know why McCullar Jr. isn't playing? Seems all signs point to him not returning & that would be a shame, since the few times he got extended PT, he played well!
I like Deuce but I just can't get there with extending him at the numbers you're talking about because he's not a great fit with the team. At the end of the day, he is a 6'2" guard that has not proven capable of running the offense. We hoped he could replace IQ but he really can't do traditional PG stuff. So, he has to be on the floor with another PG. Unfortunately, JB, Jose and Kolek are also short guards so it compromises the defense. I think Deuce would fit a lot better on a team with size in the back court that needs shooting. Like the way the Pistons just traded for Isaiah Joe. He would also be a great fit on the Spurs. It's just that with a limited budget in the second apron era, I think we need to allocate more money to the front court. Last year, we started the season with three centers + Yabu at the 4/5. We are two big men short.
To keep it a buck, Jose started the playoffs out of the rotation and was better than Deuce and we resigned him. Shamet lost his spot when we needed to have Jose on the floor in the Hawks series and then Shamet surpassed Deuce toward the end of the playoffs and we extended him. You need to play the backup center. That's 8. So, Deuce was really your ninth guy by the end of the playoffs. Do you pay significant money to your ninth guy? Note that Deuce recorded 6 goose eggs in 19 playoff games. We were able to resign JC on the minimum. It's a tough spot for Deuce. Feels very similar to the IQ situation where he and the team were better off with a trade to optimize his fit and bring back something of value for us. Ideally, we want a backup center or a combo 4/5.
The Dadiet hate agenda continues ... I thought he looked improved. Liked the cutting. So, I guess we are watching different things. I like his size. I like Nickel's size and Mo's size. But, if Dadiet's not long for the team as you believe -- which would be because you think he isn't good -- why is another team giving us something for him that we need? It feels more logical that we can trade a player more highly regarded, like Deuce, for something of value. But, let's see what happens.
Thank you for striking the perfect balance of giving us the Summer League content we crave while emphasizing how little it means. Reading this and listening to KFS/LOK pods is the equivalent to eating some good comfort food :)
Dadiet’s contract calls for him to get paid a shade under $3m. And after going through the angst of essentially cutting Mitch, I cannot see spending $100K let alone $3m on Dadiet. In his third SL, you would have expected high-level play if not dominance. But he frankly looks no better than he did in his first SL when he was only 18.
I’m not going to worry about Mo. Yet.
Nickel is quite intriguing and already has an NBA high-level skill. I’m surprised that the word is already that he won’t make the roster, but I assume it’s because the Knicks plan to only carry 14 players on the full-time roster and the 14th slot is reserved for a backup center. However, I’d trade Dadiet for a second and put Nickel into his roster spot.
I am worried about Mo mostly because his performance in the second half of the regular season was not good. Maybe that is hitting the rookie wall. He was 1-16 from three in April and May. I don’t have the breakdown to compare late March to early March but he was 19-50 for the month. A very respectable .38 % but down significantly over all from 13-28 for a probably unsustainable .464% in February. I suspect late March is when the shot went awry and it looks like it still is. That is a long stretch.
I don't really know why, but I have a soft spot for Dadiet. I haven't watched the whole first two games (and may never), but two things from the highlights jumped out: (1) he is cutting off ball and finishing plays; (2) he has gotten stronger and more athletic in the past two years. It's going to come down to whether he can make shots and not hurt them in other ways (brain fart defense and/or turnovers). If the Knicks truly think he can shoot (as Fred has said) and he continues to make smart cuts and finish plays with NBA athleticism, I can squint and see it.
I hear that. But I also think part of why Mo got more opportunities and a longer leash was that he didn't make the kinds of unforced errors that Dadiet has tended to make at the NBA level (foolish turnovers, missed box-outs, botched coverages). Even if he shoots it well, no coach is going to tolerate that. That said, it feels like Dadiet's mistakes stem from a lack of confidence and perhaps shooting well will fix that.
He was always going to be a project ... drafted at 17 ... because of the contract he agreed to. He is still only 20 years old - same age as Kayill ... two years younger than Nickel. He is still growing physically. He has got good size, physical tools, effort and movement (which would seem to imply plus vision and IQ)
So his shot still needs to come around in games that count. That can be worked on.
How long did it take Deuce to be able to hit his shots in games - despite scoring lots in the G-League? Like Deuce, Dadiet has produced in the G-League ... give him time to mature into his still growing body. ... and if his shot comes around - its a home run. (Which they may not be able to afford to keep - a la Toppin. Quickly, Grimes, etc.)
I hear you. But the issue is that he was a first round pick and so the team needs to decide by 10/31 whether or not to pick up his team option for $5.3M, as Bondy pointed out in his article yesterday. He would need to show an awful lot between now and then to make them want to do that. That’s part of the challenge of coming into the league so young these days as a 1st round pick, especially on a playoff team with second apron issues. Not a whole lot of time/space to work through challenges and develop.
Could they not decline the option and then sign him to a deal like Mo’s?
I assume yes and I assume he would sign. I don’t have a clue what the club actually thinks about him. … but toolsy 20 year olds with plus size (Dadiet, Mo, Kayil) on basically minimum salaries are not a bad thing to have outside of the rotation.
Thought Pate was on track to be another - he seemed to be figuring it out in Westchester - but NIL’s happened and he can make more money in college than on a two way.
… and you point out a very real problem with first round picks for apron challenged teams - they are not affordable as role players … especially as role players who need to be developed.
1 - Not worried at all about Mo D. At this stage in his career he needs other to facilitate and put him in a position to succeed, which he won't get at summer league. To me, he just needs to get better in the regular season. My faith in Baby Pascal remains unwavering.
2 - It's not nothing that Drummond, who legit just signed, was in Vegas to represent the Knicks. Just shows the vibe shift is permanent and that dudes are buying in to what they have going here and want to be a part of it.
3 - Just pay Deuce. Like you suggest, 3 years, in the area of $25-30$M, maybe the 3rd year as a player option as an incentive for him if he really steps it up the first two years and he wants to cash in. As the now longest tenured Knick we need to keep him and quite honestly, and no shots to Mitch Rob, this man has been the perfect person for the organization. Works hard, grinds away, never causes shit on or off the court. He needs to stay in orange and blue.
Dadiet is wing who is a natural scorer and shooter. The Knicks drafted him as a long term project. Remember that this team is great at offloading bad players and contracts (think about Yabu), so the fact the kid (he's turning 21 this month) is still a Knick on the 15 man roster (and getting mentored by Mikal BTW) suggest that the team thinks he's close enough on track to retain.
For me, I've been looking to see the improvement on the defense, particularly posture, positioning, and awareness. And, for a 20 year old scoring project wing, he's able to play acceptable NBA level defense with the 2nd/3rd team right now. The stuff folks are worried (backcuts) will come along the experience the getting featured at Westchester as well as increased time with the big team this season.
Ok now we’re congratulating guys for spending the weekend in Vegas? I kid…I’m bullish on the Drummond signing on the margins. Is it me or does he look a bit slimmed down/athletic? I’m not worried about Mo. It’s got to be hard to be out there playing with guys that mostly will not be on an NBA roster.
Diawara was the most disappointing among all Knicks in the first two games of summer league. Aside from the dismal shooting, he seemed lost out there on both offense and defense--especially in finishing layups and in lackluster rebounding. Granted he is playing with a group that knows not how or what to do, Mo D's performance was nevertheless abysmal. He has two more summer league games to demonstrate improvement.
We all love Deuce. We all loved Mitch too. Unless there is a special codicil in the Collective Bargaining agreement that I am not aware of, there is no practical way they are going to be able to keep Deuce long-term nor should they given the current Apron rules and the fact that Deuce's market value will never be higher (in my view) than it is now. He is a luxury and not a necessity. Please show me where I am wrong. As for Drummond, I agree that his appearance in Vegas is strong evidence of his commitment to be a legit contributor/rotation member. I hope that he is spending significant time in the Fitness Center at the hotel so that he can begin dropping the 20-30 pounds that would help him be a real factor on D. As we have said ad nauseum, the Knicks still will need an athletic 5 who can protect the rim and defend when KAT is not available. That is the only place where our flank is currently exposed to the competition. Brad Stevens made a defensive chess move to put us in this position, and we can argue about the efficacy of that financial decision (especially in light of jettisoning Brown for cap reasons), but he has put is in this box, and it is now our turn to make a move (now, February, whenever Leon decides is appropriate). The good news is that these are all "rich team" problems.
Travel well, Jonathan.
My oldest son gave me the standard fatherly advice when my third-oldest son and I started getting a little too excited about Tyler Nickel's shooting in Summer League: "Don't pay attention to Summer League." Fair enough.
It reminded me of one of my favorite Earl Weaver lines. The legendary Orioles manager used to say, "Never pay attention to statistics in March or September." In other words, don't let tiny sample sizes convince you you've discovered the next Hall of Famer—or the next bust.
So today I'm taking that advice. Instead of overreacting to Summer League box scores, I'd encourage my KFS family to spend an hour watching the excellent 60-minute documentary on this championship seasons available on the Knicks' website (and probably YouTube by now). It's worth every minute.
My favorite moment isn't a dunk, a playoff shot, or even a championship highlight. It's Mike Breen saying: "Life is not perfect, but there are perfect moments." Good grief.
That's one of those lines that transcends basketball. It explains why we care so much in the first place. We're not chasing perfect seasons. We're chasing those fleeting moments that stay with us forever. It's why I am still reliving the threes, the OG tip-in and the magical Jalen trips through the lane a month later. It was perfect.
It's the kind of quote that could make a stone cry.
can you drop a link to that doc? can't find it on the site
Safe travels Jon. Although I've already taped the Detroit game I'm not getting excited about summer league but do want to see more from Mo and maybe in your camp that daddy is a lost cause. The deuce question is tough. 33,000 3 years might be better spent. I don't know if they spoke to DeRozan but personally think he may have been a better fit than Clarkson and certainly a more consistent fire power shooter. Both second round draftees may be a surprisingly great surprise. I also think Due the options that stashing Kayril ( phonetic), might not be a bad idea to see how things shake out. Kolek must get more time where there's no sense in keeping him. Still questioning the third center option and Deuce might be part of the solution in a trade but his upside is still very high so I'm watching my own judgment.
Hi Jon, Hope you & Andrew are enjoying your time in Vegas & I hope you guys didn't bet on these Summer Knicks while you are there! lol I don't want to nitpick, but couldn't they, at the very least, add guys to the roster to be competitive? There are 4-5 guys, tops, on the roster that could even go to an NBA camp & 3 were from last years' team & the other 2 are the draft picks. I don't worry about Diawara, because all I have to do is think about Kolek's Summer League performance in 2025 & then his performance in Knicks games that counted. Nickel is a find & I'd like to see him on the 15 (14?) man roster, but it doesn't seem possible. Dadiet still has a lot to prove, although he did have a good game vs Brooklyn, but floundered against the Spurs! Hopefully, they start Kayil this afternoon so we can see him running the point, something the Knicks have been lacking in the first 2 games. Do you know why McCullar Jr. isn't playing? Seems all signs point to him not returning & that would be a shame, since the few times he got extended PT, he played well!
2026NBAChampionNewYorkKnicks
I like Deuce but I just can't get there with extending him at the numbers you're talking about because he's not a great fit with the team. At the end of the day, he is a 6'2" guard that has not proven capable of running the offense. We hoped he could replace IQ but he really can't do traditional PG stuff. So, he has to be on the floor with another PG. Unfortunately, JB, Jose and Kolek are also short guards so it compromises the defense. I think Deuce would fit a lot better on a team with size in the back court that needs shooting. Like the way the Pistons just traded for Isaiah Joe. He would also be a great fit on the Spurs. It's just that with a limited budget in the second apron era, I think we need to allocate more money to the front court. Last year, we started the season with three centers + Yabu at the 4/5. We are two big men short.
To keep it a buck, Jose started the playoffs out of the rotation and was better than Deuce and we resigned him. Shamet lost his spot when we needed to have Jose on the floor in the Hawks series and then Shamet surpassed Deuce toward the end of the playoffs and we extended him. You need to play the backup center. That's 8. So, Deuce was really your ninth guy by the end of the playoffs. Do you pay significant money to your ninth guy? Note that Deuce recorded 6 goose eggs in 19 playoff games. We were able to resign JC on the minimum. It's a tough spot for Deuce. Feels very similar to the IQ situation where he and the team were better off with a trade to optimize his fit and bring back something of value for us. Ideally, we want a backup center or a combo 4/5.
The Dadiet hate agenda continues ... I thought he looked improved. Liked the cutting. So, I guess we are watching different things. I like his size. I like Nickel's size and Mo's size. But, if Dadiet's not long for the team as you believe -- which would be because you think he isn't good -- why is another team giving us something for him that we need? It feels more logical that we can trade a player more highly regarded, like Deuce, for something of value. But, let's see what happens.
Thank you for striking the perfect balance of giving us the Summer League content we crave while emphasizing how little it means. Reading this and listening to KFS/LOK pods is the equivalent to eating some good comfort food :)
Dadiet’s contract calls for him to get paid a shade under $3m. And after going through the angst of essentially cutting Mitch, I cannot see spending $100K let alone $3m on Dadiet. In his third SL, you would have expected high-level play if not dominance. But he frankly looks no better than he did in his first SL when he was only 18.
I’m not going to worry about Mo. Yet.
Nickel is quite intriguing and already has an NBA high-level skill. I’m surprised that the word is already that he won’t make the roster, but I assume it’s because the Knicks plan to only carry 14 players on the full-time roster and the 14th slot is reserved for a backup center. However, I’d trade Dadiet for a second and put Nickel into his roster spot.
I am worried about Mo mostly because his performance in the second half of the regular season was not good. Maybe that is hitting the rookie wall. He was 1-16 from three in April and May. I don’t have the breakdown to compare late March to early March but he was 19-50 for the month. A very respectable .38 % but down significantly over all from 13-28 for a probably unsustainable .464% in February. I suspect late March is when the shot went awry and it looks like it still is. That is a long stretch.
I checked the box scores. He was actually quite good in late March with the same 38% from three in the second half of the month.
I don't really know why, but I have a soft spot for Dadiet. I haven't watched the whole first two games (and may never), but two things from the highlights jumped out: (1) he is cutting off ball and finishing plays; (2) he has gotten stronger and more athletic in the past two years. It's going to come down to whether he can make shots and not hurt them in other ways (brain fart defense and/or turnovers). If the Knicks truly think he can shoot (as Fred has said) and he continues to make smart cuts and finish plays with NBA athleticism, I can squint and see it.
It’s the shooting. Plain and simple. Do that, and everything else will sort itself out. Don’t, and he’ll be playing overseas.
I hear that. But I also think part of why Mo got more opportunities and a longer leash was that he didn't make the kinds of unforced errors that Dadiet has tended to make at the NBA level (foolish turnovers, missed box-outs, botched coverages). Even if he shoots it well, no coach is going to tolerate that. That said, it feels like Dadiet's mistakes stem from a lack of confidence and perhaps shooting well will fix that.
He was always going to be a project ... drafted at 17 ... because of the contract he agreed to. He is still only 20 years old - same age as Kayill ... two years younger than Nickel. He is still growing physically. He has got good size, physical tools, effort and movement (which would seem to imply plus vision and IQ)
So his shot still needs to come around in games that count. That can be worked on.
How long did it take Deuce to be able to hit his shots in games - despite scoring lots in the G-League? Like Deuce, Dadiet has produced in the G-League ... give him time to mature into his still growing body. ... and if his shot comes around - its a home run. (Which they may not be able to afford to keep - a la Toppin. Quickly, Grimes, etc.)
I hear you. But the issue is that he was a first round pick and so the team needs to decide by 10/31 whether or not to pick up his team option for $5.3M, as Bondy pointed out in his article yesterday. He would need to show an awful lot between now and then to make them want to do that. That’s part of the challenge of coming into the league so young these days as a 1st round pick, especially on a playoff team with second apron issues. Not a whole lot of time/space to work through challenges and develop.
I hope he figures it out.
Yup.
Could they not decline the option and then sign him to a deal like Mo’s?
I assume yes and I assume he would sign. I don’t have a clue what the club actually thinks about him. … but toolsy 20 year olds with plus size (Dadiet, Mo, Kayil) on basically minimum salaries are not a bad thing to have outside of the rotation.
Thought Pate was on track to be another - he seemed to be figuring it out in Westchester - but NIL’s happened and he can make more money in college than on a two way.
… and you point out a very real problem with first round picks for apron challenged teams - they are not affordable as role players … especially as role players who need to be developed.
Looked like a great trip. Three quick things:
1 - Not worried at all about Mo D. At this stage in his career he needs other to facilitate and put him in a position to succeed, which he won't get at summer league. To me, he just needs to get better in the regular season. My faith in Baby Pascal remains unwavering.
2 - It's not nothing that Drummond, who legit just signed, was in Vegas to represent the Knicks. Just shows the vibe shift is permanent and that dudes are buying in to what they have going here and want to be a part of it.
3 - Just pay Deuce. Like you suggest, 3 years, in the area of $25-30$M, maybe the 3rd year as a player option as an incentive for him if he really steps it up the first two years and he wants to cash in. As the now longest tenured Knick we need to keep him and quite honestly, and no shots to Mitch Rob, this man has been the perfect person for the organization. Works hard, grinds away, never causes shit on or off the court. He needs to stay in orange and blue.
Dadiet is wing who is a natural scorer and shooter. The Knicks drafted him as a long term project. Remember that this team is great at offloading bad players and contracts (think about Yabu), so the fact the kid (he's turning 21 this month) is still a Knick on the 15 man roster (and getting mentored by Mikal BTW) suggest that the team thinks he's close enough on track to retain.
For me, I've been looking to see the improvement on the defense, particularly posture, positioning, and awareness. And, for a 20 year old scoring project wing, he's able to play acceptable NBA level defense with the 2nd/3rd team right now. The stuff folks are worried (backcuts) will come along the experience the getting featured at Westchester as well as increased time with the big team this season.
Again I'm not worried.
Awesome to meet you and Andrew at the meetup on Saturday! Good vibes!
I’ll be watching our summer league… ahem… “team” (lol) in person today and hoping for another Nickel shooting display and a breakout for Mo.
I’m often over optimistic but i think the Summerknicks may break 50 today!
You were proved right by a wide margin
Ok now we’re congratulating guys for spending the weekend in Vegas? I kid…I’m bullish on the Drummond signing on the margins. Is it me or does he look a bit slimmed down/athletic? I’m not worried about Mo. It’s got to be hard to be out there playing with guys that mostly will not be on an NBA roster.
Have we signed Sochan? Is he, right now, the third string center?
I'd sign on to that.
Diawara was the most disappointing among all Knicks in the first two games of summer league. Aside from the dismal shooting, he seemed lost out there on both offense and defense--especially in finishing layups and in lackluster rebounding. Granted he is playing with a group that knows not how or what to do, Mo D's performance was nevertheless abysmal. He has two more summer league games to demonstrate improvement.