Watching the Tatum 3 in slow motion, ugh, OG played it so poorly. Non fouling aside, biting on that fake in that situation is brutal - and so unlike him. KP did do a great job almost faking his first screen and then resetting, it looked like that threw OG off a bit too.
Love OG, love his growth last month. Hope he just had an off night. We need him to be sharper on both sides to beat these guys.
We can beat Boston in a series. I fully believe it.
Thibs was not going to allow the Knicks to win that game. From not getting Duece in for Hart on some key late offensive possessions to not fouling Tatum is inexcusable. Tatum and Porzingis were making some miraculous shots under some very good pressure by Knick defenders. I actually felt bad for Bridges. He had two textbook defensive plays vs Tatum only to get faced both times. Letting Tatum get off that 3 was absurd.
I came away feeling better rather than worse. Jacyn Goble did his normal BS. There are things to clean up, but we still should have won. I’ll take it for now. (Though I don’t know how Josh gets a star over OG.) And I thought Mitch presented some very interesting problems for Boston. But he did seem to get gassed extremely quickly. I think if Brunson were more up to speed we win that game in spite of everything else.
Apologies for the long comment but lots to discuss….What a bag of mixed emotions. Super frustrating and disappointing loss. However, this is what we expected to look like against Boston all season. Definitely the type of loss that gets you ready for playoff basketball. Some mental lapses last night, including in the 1H when one could argue we could have had a bigger lead than 6 at half. Hart rebounded a ball one handed and had it taken away from him, was a lazy play and ended up in a Celtics FG. OG snagged a rebound and then turned it over as well, but C’s ended up missing a good look. These mistakes can’t happen against the best team in the NBA (until proven wrong). Overall, I wasn’t as down on Bridges as some of the SuperChats. I thought he was as assertive and engaged as he’s been against an elite team. He had at least 3 or 4 open looks that just missed, just an off night, but he also came through with some big buckets down the stretch. He also had a good spurt in the 2Q that kept the Knicks rolling. Would have liked to see a little more, but much better movement and engagement overall. Tatum just seems to own him on the other end right now. KAT was so good. When he’s going like that offensively then bring on anyone and let’s go to battle. His defense is going to be a roller coaster every game. It is what it is, but the compete and effort is getting better by the game.
I loved some of the offensive creativity having Bridges and OG as screeners for Brunson. We got great looks at the foul line or takes to the rim every time out of those sets. Need some more Brunson / KAT PnR in these games also. Much prefer either of those 3 to Hart as the main screener, let Hart be involved by cutting, like the play Brunson hit him at the end of regulation off a KAT screen. I loved Hart but 48 mins to Deuce 20 needs to balance a little bit more. Also think Wright needs to be considered in this matchup. Bigger body, great defense and pray he hits an open look. A few drives they just bullied Shamet to the rim.
It’s not a coincidence we owned the glass in Mitch’s first game against Boston this szn. Thought he was great for the most part outside of some D. Anyone expecting us to shut down this offense all game is in fairy land. I would say 107 points at the end of regulation (should have been 106 if we fouled) is pretty damn good and we’re still finding lapses!
Last 2 things - the FT line. Similar to what I mentioned above. Can’t go 10-17 in this type of game. Just terrible. We are one of the better FT shooting teams in the league so have to hope this was an outlier. Thibs out of the timeout needs to be drawing up some more creative plays. For instance, why not have KAT screen for Brunson with 2.9 left on the side out? Force Boston to make a decision to double and leave KAT, switch and get KAT the ball in a mismatch or get it to Brunson with single coverage. Instead - he plopped Brunson to the corner to see if he’d get positioning. Bad. And the play at the end of OT was another poorly drawn up play. Same way the players need to cut out the mental and careless mistakes, the coach needs to clean that up also. Overall, I think I am happy and want to clinch the 3 seed + keep building back to the rhythm of earlier this year.
The headline takeaway from the game is the Knicks CAN play with the Celtics. In the previous 3 contests the Knicks mostly looked like the Wizards against the Celtics. Big step. Number two for me is I felt the Knicks should've gotten OG involved offensively early which they did not do. I believe his only shot in the first quarter was the heave as the shot clock was expiring that luckily hit the rim and led to a put back. Gotta feed OG early ( c'mon JB that's on you.) Thirdly, I thought Mikal played hard. He didn't shoot great but he fought and made many good plays. If he plays like that with just a better shooting percentage things will be good for the Knicks. Lastly, KAT was simply jaw dropingly impressive offensively. He doesn't have a bag he has a duffle bag!
It’s hindsight and all, but rewatching the end of regulation, once the clock gets under 5 seconds or so, there’s probably no need for KAT to be locked up with Kornet in the paint. He could have just blitzed Tatum as well. Dare Tatum to dump it off to Kornet for an easy two. I doubt Kornet would have relocated to the 3-point line and even if he did, you’d much rather him take the 3 than Tatum.
Everyone complaining about margin plays - like not having a shooter sub in who hits 3 shots more per every 100 taken for Hart for a single shot, or OG or MB tightening up and screwing up a single play (not fouling, not catching the ball cleanly) as if that’s why we lost - please realize that these plays had incredible impact on the game BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THE CELTICS IS MARGINAL AS WELL. We can beat those fuckers. And we lost because they got several second chance shots and hit 3s on them. A player will go nuts against us every game (KP). Another will underwhelm (brown). If we secured the rebounds and hit our foul shots - two things far more in our control - we win the game. Take that for data!… and remember it when we compete and win in round 2.
I agree the difference in talent is marginal which is why we all obsess over the coach. We have to fully maximize ourselves and win the margins in order to beat this team and I just don’t think this coach is capable of that.
That’s possible - and absolutely one of the big open questions. But while I see coaches out there who are different, I think it’s hard to know who might be better, especially with the team we have. Changing no players, who do you think would be demonstrably better and get more out of this group? I’m open to suggestions and genuinely curious
Your post could have been seven words: “The math battle remained in Boston’s favor.” I thought the Knicks played very well. Much better defense against the three but still not nearly good enough. The Knicks were out scored by 24 from three. They are outscored from three every single game. They take way, way too many tough twos. And many of the 38 threes they took were well contested. Essentially until they tweak the offense for more open threes and until they sell out for much better three point defense they are totally at the mercy of the Cavs and Celtics who are two of the best math teams in the league. For that matter this includes most other teams that are not the Knicks.
The bottom line is you can’t get hammered from three every single night and achieve ultimate success. Their offense is still very good but until Thibs gets you can’t trade threes for twos every game and goes about things differently this is where we are. Not only did Boston take 11 more threes but they were way better than the threes the Knicks took. In short a great effort with a fundamentally flawed offensive framework. Against most teams that may work but not against the best.
I thought going into this game that this is the most important game of the season. And then I listened to Jon and Jeremy’s pod Monday they scuffed at this thought. The emotional baggage attached to this game was HEAVY. We came up just short. Would’ve been a huge mental lift to get the W, but alas I walk away with mixed feelings…
I’m encouraged that:
- the team showed up and played with the right intensity
- KAT asserted his dominance on the inside making the Celtics pay for putting a small on him.
- Defensively much stronger, KAT wasn’t aa exposed on the pick n roll. Celtics offense was carried by Tatum tough shot making over good defense by OG and Bridges and Porzingis unconscious from 3.
Having said that - there’s just a few things that sting:
- Mental errors. Just so many times doing the wrong thing, whether it’s missing a switch, an assignment, a poor inbounds play. Fouling or not fouling. What’s causing this?
- Payne and Shamet were largely unplayable. Unfortunately they have not shown they can be part of a NBA playoff rotation.
And mainly - the lack of offensive adjustment.
I love Josh Hart as a person and a player but the lack of adjustment by Thibs is asinine. The fact that Boston is not guarding him on offense and yet Thibs didn’t try a different look at any point in the second half is mind boggling.
The Knicks entire offense just feels like, how can we get a good shot even though no body is guarding Hart?
Every action they run, runs through him because the big is on him. As Thibs said, “bring the big into the action”. It’s not doing shit for you if Hart is the roller. Think about this - the Brunson KAT pick n roll is statistically one of the best in the league. Yet we don’t get to see it because of personnel. The times that we got Towns or Brides involved as the screener, we scored.
And it’s not like there are aren’t other options. Deuce and Mitch are completely different players but both can give you a different look.
He’s got to make some type of adjustment. And I’m not saying bench Hart. Just try something different. For portions of the game. Show me some lineup flexibility
I was positive the entire game and I'm choosing to be positive all day. I usually hate the idea of moral victories but we've been so shit against elite teams that playing to their level late into the season (and almost pulling out the W) seems like real progress. I don't think we come out winners against the Celtics in the 2nd round (if we're good enough to get past DET/MIL), but I give us a puncher's chance to take it to 7. And in a game 7? Well, that's where miracles happen sometimes. Call me a dreamer/believer/cultist I guess. LFGK.
Alot to like from last night's game. I thought OG and Mikal were great on D, sometimes great players make great shots was what Tatum was doing. It felt like a playoff game and I think they showed that whoever they play in rd 1 they should take care of business. Now facing Boston in rd 2 is going to be what it is. That team is built as close to perfect as possible and I don't want to root for a teams injury but wow Boston is great. Can anyone beat them 4 out of 7, I doubt it but if a team is going to do it I think after watching last night this Knicks team would be one of the few who could. KP isn't hitting 9 threes every night and Brown looks like his recovery won't be fully healed until the offseason.
Frustration. No other word describes last night's game better than that. We can take the positive & say they weren't blown out, they took it to overtime & this was their best showing against the Celtics this year! But, they lost! Again! Now the Celtics are the defending champion, they come at you in waves & honestly, they're a better team than the Knicks. But what got me last night were the little things-some that had no effect on the game & others that could have changed the final result. KP was amazing last night, but how many times did the Celtics run that simple screen play without the Knicks making an adjustment & KP shooting against a smaller defender or no defender at all. The last 3.9 of the 3rd quarter. Thibs takes Mitch out on defense & then reinserts him for the start of the 4th. Why? Why take out your best defensive big man on defense? And, speaking of Mitch, 15 minutes in a 53 minute game & now, only 3 games left before the playoffs. Yes, there was concern in the 3rdQ for his knee, but he returned no worse for the wear! And the Knicks are a completely different team when he is out there. KAT's DUMB foul on Tatum's 3. SMH Last 2.9 of the game. Time Out. Why is Josh Hart out there when you needed another shooter (Deuce?) out there. And, Hart winds up taking the 3 point shot (0-4 on the night), so we go to OT. The non-defense layup. WTF? Bridges non-focus on catching the ball? It's almost expected now that we'll screw up some way to lose a game against a good team. I kept hearing last night that the battle was Celtic 3's vs Knicks In The Paint points. And, the Knicks won the rebound battle 52-38. But, the Celtics went to the foul line 25 times(20-25), while the Knicks only went 16 (10-16). How does that happen when 49 of the Celtics 87 shot attempts were 3's? Pistons & Cavs up next, before the Nets finish out the regular season. It's the next morning & I'm still as angry as I was last night! PS- Inbounds Plays- No team in the NBA has a more consistently tough time in getting the ball in than the Knicks. Maybe add some plays for it, Thibs??? Oh, and the non-foul on Tatum, allowing him to shoot the 3? So many little things that added up to a big loss! And one more thing- Screw that Sasquatch Shaq!
I got as caught up in the end results as Jon but at the end of the day o came away hopeful. I thought we saw good stuff from Mitch. Both on the boards and on the perimeter (the Tatum block). I don’t think we have seen a game all year where Towns posted up as much as he did. He made them pay for playing him with smalls and that was very encouraging.
Interesting seeing the Celtics set picks at the top of the key with the sole purpose of switching Bridges onto Tatum instead of OG. Must have happened on four or five consecutive plays. And Mikal defended him well and could not stop him.
If only Kolek and Dadiet could have gotten some playing time for their development (I kid, I kid).
Watching the Tatum 3 in slow motion, ugh, OG played it so poorly. Non fouling aside, biting on that fake in that situation is brutal - and so unlike him. KP did do a great job almost faking his first screen and then resetting, it looked like that threw OG off a bit too.
Love OG, love his growth last month. Hope he just had an off night. We need him to be sharper on both sides to beat these guys.
We can beat Boston in a series. I fully believe it.
That was my exact reaction. Didn't even think about the foul. Can't bite on a pump fake up 3.
Yeah you brought that up last night. I’m hoping OG is playing some 4D chess.
Thibs was not going to allow the Knicks to win that game. From not getting Duece in for Hart on some key late offensive possessions to not fouling Tatum is inexcusable. Tatum and Porzingis were making some miraculous shots under some very good pressure by Knick defenders. I actually felt bad for Bridges. He had two textbook defensive plays vs Tatum only to get faced both times. Letting Tatum get off that 3 was absurd.
I hate Boston, I hate Boston, I hate Boston, I hate Boston, I hate Boston........
I came away feeling better rather than worse. Jacyn Goble did his normal BS. There are things to clean up, but we still should have won. I’ll take it for now. (Though I don’t know how Josh gets a star over OG.) And I thought Mitch presented some very interesting problems for Boston. But he did seem to get gassed extremely quickly. I think if Brunson were more up to speed we win that game in spite of everything else.
Apologies for the long comment but lots to discuss….What a bag of mixed emotions. Super frustrating and disappointing loss. However, this is what we expected to look like against Boston all season. Definitely the type of loss that gets you ready for playoff basketball. Some mental lapses last night, including in the 1H when one could argue we could have had a bigger lead than 6 at half. Hart rebounded a ball one handed and had it taken away from him, was a lazy play and ended up in a Celtics FG. OG snagged a rebound and then turned it over as well, but C’s ended up missing a good look. These mistakes can’t happen against the best team in the NBA (until proven wrong). Overall, I wasn’t as down on Bridges as some of the SuperChats. I thought he was as assertive and engaged as he’s been against an elite team. He had at least 3 or 4 open looks that just missed, just an off night, but he also came through with some big buckets down the stretch. He also had a good spurt in the 2Q that kept the Knicks rolling. Would have liked to see a little more, but much better movement and engagement overall. Tatum just seems to own him on the other end right now. KAT was so good. When he’s going like that offensively then bring on anyone and let’s go to battle. His defense is going to be a roller coaster every game. It is what it is, but the compete and effort is getting better by the game.
I loved some of the offensive creativity having Bridges and OG as screeners for Brunson. We got great looks at the foul line or takes to the rim every time out of those sets. Need some more Brunson / KAT PnR in these games also. Much prefer either of those 3 to Hart as the main screener, let Hart be involved by cutting, like the play Brunson hit him at the end of regulation off a KAT screen. I loved Hart but 48 mins to Deuce 20 needs to balance a little bit more. Also think Wright needs to be considered in this matchup. Bigger body, great defense and pray he hits an open look. A few drives they just bullied Shamet to the rim.
It’s not a coincidence we owned the glass in Mitch’s first game against Boston this szn. Thought he was great for the most part outside of some D. Anyone expecting us to shut down this offense all game is in fairy land. I would say 107 points at the end of regulation (should have been 106 if we fouled) is pretty damn good and we’re still finding lapses!
Last 2 things - the FT line. Similar to what I mentioned above. Can’t go 10-17 in this type of game. Just terrible. We are one of the better FT shooting teams in the league so have to hope this was an outlier. Thibs out of the timeout needs to be drawing up some more creative plays. For instance, why not have KAT screen for Brunson with 2.9 left on the side out? Force Boston to make a decision to double and leave KAT, switch and get KAT the ball in a mismatch or get it to Brunson with single coverage. Instead - he plopped Brunson to the corner to see if he’d get positioning. Bad. And the play at the end of OT was another poorly drawn up play. Same way the players need to cut out the mental and careless mistakes, the coach needs to clean that up also. Overall, I think I am happy and want to clinch the 3 seed + keep building back to the rhythm of earlier this year.
The headline takeaway from the game is the Knicks CAN play with the Celtics. In the previous 3 contests the Knicks mostly looked like the Wizards against the Celtics. Big step. Number two for me is I felt the Knicks should've gotten OG involved offensively early which they did not do. I believe his only shot in the first quarter was the heave as the shot clock was expiring that luckily hit the rim and led to a put back. Gotta feed OG early ( c'mon JB that's on you.) Thirdly, I thought Mikal played hard. He didn't shoot great but he fought and made many good plays. If he plays like that with just a better shooting percentage things will be good for the Knicks. Lastly, KAT was simply jaw dropingly impressive offensively. He doesn't have a bag he has a duffle bag!
It’s hindsight and all, but rewatching the end of regulation, once the clock gets under 5 seconds or so, there’s probably no need for KAT to be locked up with Kornet in the paint. He could have just blitzed Tatum as well. Dare Tatum to dump it off to Kornet for an easy two. I doubt Kornet would have relocated to the 3-point line and even if he did, you’d much rather him take the 3 than Tatum.
I love this team! Let’s secure the third seed, rest up and prepare for whomever we will face! Prove Shaq and all the haters wrong. Go Knicks Go
Everyone complaining about margin plays - like not having a shooter sub in who hits 3 shots more per every 100 taken for Hart for a single shot, or OG or MB tightening up and screwing up a single play (not fouling, not catching the ball cleanly) as if that’s why we lost - please realize that these plays had incredible impact on the game BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THE CELTICS IS MARGINAL AS WELL. We can beat those fuckers. And we lost because they got several second chance shots and hit 3s on them. A player will go nuts against us every game (KP). Another will underwhelm (brown). If we secured the rebounds and hit our foul shots - two things far more in our control - we win the game. Take that for data!… and remember it when we compete and win in round 2.
I agree the difference in talent is marginal which is why we all obsess over the coach. We have to fully maximize ourselves and win the margins in order to beat this team and I just don’t think this coach is capable of that.
That’s possible - and absolutely one of the big open questions. But while I see coaches out there who are different, I think it’s hard to know who might be better, especially with the team we have. Changing no players, who do you think would be demonstrably better and get more out of this group? I’m open to suggestions and genuinely curious
I’m not sure . But I see what Atkinson and mazzulla and daignault and jj Redick are doing and think that’s what we are missing.
Your post could have been seven words: “The math battle remained in Boston’s favor.” I thought the Knicks played very well. Much better defense against the three but still not nearly good enough. The Knicks were out scored by 24 from three. They are outscored from three every single game. They take way, way too many tough twos. And many of the 38 threes they took were well contested. Essentially until they tweak the offense for more open threes and until they sell out for much better three point defense they are totally at the mercy of the Cavs and Celtics who are two of the best math teams in the league. For that matter this includes most other teams that are not the Knicks.
The bottom line is you can’t get hammered from three every single night and achieve ultimate success. Their offense is still very good but until Thibs gets you can’t trade threes for twos every game and goes about things differently this is where we are. Not only did Boston take 11 more threes but they were way better than the threes the Knicks took. In short a great effort with a fundamentally flawed offensive framework. Against most teams that may work but not against the best.
Excellent. How do you watch Boston play and then play Hart 48 minutes. Its insanity.
Why cover anyone inside the arc at the end
I thought going into this game that this is the most important game of the season. And then I listened to Jon and Jeremy’s pod Monday they scuffed at this thought. The emotional baggage attached to this game was HEAVY. We came up just short. Would’ve been a huge mental lift to get the W, but alas I walk away with mixed feelings…
I’m encouraged that:
- the team showed up and played with the right intensity
- KAT asserted his dominance on the inside making the Celtics pay for putting a small on him.
- Defensively much stronger, KAT wasn’t aa exposed on the pick n roll. Celtics offense was carried by Tatum tough shot making over good defense by OG and Bridges and Porzingis unconscious from 3.
Having said that - there’s just a few things that sting:
- Mental errors. Just so many times doing the wrong thing, whether it’s missing a switch, an assignment, a poor inbounds play. Fouling or not fouling. What’s causing this?
- Payne and Shamet were largely unplayable. Unfortunately they have not shown they can be part of a NBA playoff rotation.
And mainly - the lack of offensive adjustment.
I love Josh Hart as a person and a player but the lack of adjustment by Thibs is asinine. The fact that Boston is not guarding him on offense and yet Thibs didn’t try a different look at any point in the second half is mind boggling.
The Knicks entire offense just feels like, how can we get a good shot even though no body is guarding Hart?
Every action they run, runs through him because the big is on him. As Thibs said, “bring the big into the action”. It’s not doing shit for you if Hart is the roller. Think about this - the Brunson KAT pick n roll is statistically one of the best in the league. Yet we don’t get to see it because of personnel. The times that we got Towns or Brides involved as the screener, we scored.
And it’s not like there are aren’t other options. Deuce and Mitch are completely different players but both can give you a different look.
He’s got to make some type of adjustment. And I’m not saying bench Hart. Just try something different. For portions of the game. Show me some lineup flexibility
100 percent. Against the Celtics, after we lose the first game, Hart has to come off the bench or we have no chance to win the series.
I was positive the entire game and I'm choosing to be positive all day. I usually hate the idea of moral victories but we've been so shit against elite teams that playing to their level late into the season (and almost pulling out the W) seems like real progress. I don't think we come out winners against the Celtics in the 2nd round (if we're good enough to get past DET/MIL), but I give us a puncher's chance to take it to 7. And in a game 7? Well, that's where miracles happen sometimes. Call me a dreamer/believer/cultist I guess. LFGK.
Alot to like from last night's game. I thought OG and Mikal were great on D, sometimes great players make great shots was what Tatum was doing. It felt like a playoff game and I think they showed that whoever they play in rd 1 they should take care of business. Now facing Boston in rd 2 is going to be what it is. That team is built as close to perfect as possible and I don't want to root for a teams injury but wow Boston is great. Can anyone beat them 4 out of 7, I doubt it but if a team is going to do it I think after watching last night this Knicks team would be one of the few who could. KP isn't hitting 9 threes every night and Brown looks like his recovery won't be fully healed until the offseason.
Frustration. No other word describes last night's game better than that. We can take the positive & say they weren't blown out, they took it to overtime & this was their best showing against the Celtics this year! But, they lost! Again! Now the Celtics are the defending champion, they come at you in waves & honestly, they're a better team than the Knicks. But what got me last night were the little things-some that had no effect on the game & others that could have changed the final result. KP was amazing last night, but how many times did the Celtics run that simple screen play without the Knicks making an adjustment & KP shooting against a smaller defender or no defender at all. The last 3.9 of the 3rd quarter. Thibs takes Mitch out on defense & then reinserts him for the start of the 4th. Why? Why take out your best defensive big man on defense? And, speaking of Mitch, 15 minutes in a 53 minute game & now, only 3 games left before the playoffs. Yes, there was concern in the 3rdQ for his knee, but he returned no worse for the wear! And the Knicks are a completely different team when he is out there. KAT's DUMB foul on Tatum's 3. SMH Last 2.9 of the game. Time Out. Why is Josh Hart out there when you needed another shooter (Deuce?) out there. And, Hart winds up taking the 3 point shot (0-4 on the night), so we go to OT. The non-defense layup. WTF? Bridges non-focus on catching the ball? It's almost expected now that we'll screw up some way to lose a game against a good team. I kept hearing last night that the battle was Celtic 3's vs Knicks In The Paint points. And, the Knicks won the rebound battle 52-38. But, the Celtics went to the foul line 25 times(20-25), while the Knicks only went 16 (10-16). How does that happen when 49 of the Celtics 87 shot attempts were 3's? Pistons & Cavs up next, before the Nets finish out the regular season. It's the next morning & I'm still as angry as I was last night! PS- Inbounds Plays- No team in the NBA has a more consistently tough time in getting the ball in than the Knicks. Maybe add some plays for it, Thibs??? Oh, and the non-foul on Tatum, allowing him to shoot the 3? So many little things that added up to a big loss! And one more thing- Screw that Sasquatch Shaq!
I got as caught up in the end results as Jon but at the end of the day o came away hopeful. I thought we saw good stuff from Mitch. Both on the boards and on the perimeter (the Tatum block). I don’t think we have seen a game all year where Towns posted up as much as he did. He made them pay for playing him with smalls and that was very encouraging.
Interesting seeing the Celtics set picks at the top of the key with the sole purpose of switching Bridges onto Tatum instead of OG. Must have happened on four or five consecutive plays. And Mikal defended him well and could not stop him.
If only Kolek and Dadiet could have gotten some playing time for their development (I kid, I kid).