Based on past behavior, I think Deuce will be relegated to the bench and deemed situational moving forward. Hate to see that but understand if it happens. I hope this doesn’t kill the kids confidence just as he was just starting to come around. I would love to see a few less RJ minutes too. No need to play RJ 37 a night.
Feb 9, 2023·edited Feb 9, 2023Liked by Jonathan Macri
I really like this trade. Hart is a really nice add for this team, someone I liked more than basically all the other realistic options out there.
Overall, I think you said it best last night (and this is all being said with the presumption Hart resigns), IQ/Grimes/Hart is a great complimentary trio of role players who can play with basically anyone and with each other, and all bring something unique. This solidifies the roster, both short and long term.
As you prob have realized, I have been quite pessimistic about this FO and whats next (as we have spoken about before). But this is a good move and gives me more confidence in their plan, which is what has always worried me the most. If Hart resigns, this is a solid foundation building move for a good price, and expands potential horizons (even if its slightly).
Karma's a bitch Nets. Guess you shouldn't have jettisoned commitment for crazy. Stick with the one who got you there. Tip a little out for Atkinson tonight. Back to Culture Nets I guess.
The ironic part about it is if they had kept the Atkinson team together, with Allen and Russell, and Dinwidde, and all those other guys, they’d probably be just as good if not better than Brooklyn is today.
Looking at who we are right now...a scrappy team gutting out wins against quality opponents, it makes a lot of sense to trade three guys who aren't playing for one guy who will get quality minutes and can be a great defender and rebounder. The first sucks to lose but we've done well with late round firsts and our pick vs. Dallas' isn't going to be that different and we don't really have room to play more rookies assuming we like our roster. I don't know much about Hart but I have a friend who's a Blazers fan and he's pretty high on him.
Josh is hart is an underrated version of OG. Fred Katz talked about it on the pod with Jon. Many of OG's threes are wide ass open. I would love to see some stats comparing these players from a shooting perspective. Just as an aside. I theorize that the Knicks scouting is obsessed with wingspan. Josh hart is short yes but a 6'9 wingspan. IQ: 6'8, Deuce: 6'9 Grimes: 6'8.
Underrated reason all those guys are exceptional defenders.
Mac thanks for the analysis, particularly on why Portland made this trade. I was so perplexed as to why Portland made a non win now trade. I see why the Knicks made the trade. Like you said, as always, follow the money.
Dame is rotting away in Portland. Good luck out west with Luka/Kyrie and Book/KD.
Thanks for the great trade/deadline coverage, KFS! Josh fits theseThiby Knicks to a T. A winning team has to have heart!
I started following the NBA when the former Postmaster General [which used to be a big political deal] Walter Kennedy was the Commissioner. David Stern, I believe, succeeded him. With cocaine, off court antics, franchises moving, and White players disappearing-----the League, went Madison Avenue & Hollywood, deciding to sell the GAME as a STAR driven contest. Media loves talking about and promoting stars! No longer Celtics versus Lakers. The event became Bird versus Magic. And, we've never looked back.
The Long Island/NJ/BKLYN Nets had a good thing going. But, they wanted to dance with the stars and tried to make a big splash. They went for a basketball version of soccer's Real Madrid's "galácticos." Basketball mercenaries with no loyalty to the Nets organization, its fans, or the larger community. And, in a short span it blew up spectacularly.
I am showing my advanced age [get off my lawn]], but I don't care. Fuck NBA divas. Good riddance. #LGK
By getting Josh Hart, the Knicks filled multiple needs and gave up so little. When Thibs and the front office are in sync, they can really pull off some good shit.
Good, minor move by the Knicks. The good is that Hart is another effort player, great rebounder for a guard, nice passer, good defender. The bad is he can’t shoot and in a shooter’s league, the Knicks are still woeful in that department. Knicks don’t get beyond the play-in/first round, without another shooter.
JMAC, great newsletter, thanks for staying up late to write it!.
I have two questions.
1. Does the KD trade now reset the market? Four unprotected picks is now the standard for a superstar. The Gobert trade looks even worse somehow. The market for the OG's of the world relaxes a bit. There is a chance Joe Tsai might have saved the NBA from itself.
2. Is Mikal Bridges or a disgruntled Brandon Ingram the next trade target for the Knicks this summer?
Let me get the former out of the way - if the market resets (and depending on what Brooklyn wants to do, they're still talented enough for, I'll even say, the 7th seed) Mikal Bridges could be netted for a first or two and matching salary. He reunites with his Villanova backcourt and the Knicks still have a great offense and an improved defense.
The latter though is far more interesting. Let's say the Pelicans get bounced early this year. BI gets frustrated, Pelicans were already frustrated with his recovery. The Knicks offer RJ, Grimes or Quick, Obi and 2 firsts (market reset assumed and Josh Hart extended). BI plays with Josh Hart and Julius again. Zion plays with his best friend in RJ, the Pelicans get younger but still in a position to compete, banking on RJ to take that leap of get flipped for someone else.
1) I think the NBA has sort of agreed that the Gobert thing was a one-off. As for OG, I suspect it will still take a lot to get him, but less than some might have suspected a few weeks ago.
2) I have long kept a side eye on Ingram. I just wonder if/why he'd push to leave.
I'm happy with this move. I just hope the pick they traded doesn't turn out to be another diamond in the rough. I hope the pick is protected to the 20s....but most likely it will be in the teens.
On a night where Brunson’s jersey was retired by Villanova, interesting evening for the school’s alumni. Hart, Bridges, even Arcidiacono, all former college teammates of Jalen from that 2016 championship squad.
The Hart trade is fine. I didn’t expect our front office to do much but the caveat should have been that if a CAA client becomes available…….. Definitely a Thibs type.
Wilt Chamberlain was traded mid-season by the Warriors to 76ers at his peak,for KD equivalent trade.
I am trying to figure out Hart minutes. If RJ and Brunson play 32 each and Grimes 28 that leaves 52 off the bench. Assuming Duece is situational splitting 52 between IQ and Hart seems about right.
So I think the key to figuring out if the Knicks have another move in them is figuring out what other options the Raptors have. They may or may not come back to us. They have multiple options, it seems, and our only option is to hope they call us back because they want RJ for OG. It sure looked like their first preferred option was to try to get Ayton from the Suns for a package centered on OG, and pair him with Siakam, but now that ship has sailed and Ayton stays, or at least that sure looks to be the case. So now that Brooklyn has made their deal, now the Raptors are up next. It’s widely assumed that they are at very least going to move Trent, but do they pull off a wider deal, and who do they choose to partner up with as the clock gets closer to 3pm.
Hello Jon here are my thoughts on the Hart trade and want to know if you feel the same.
First I would like to acknowledge that the Knicks got better as a team for this season from the trade and Cam was out of the rotation and gone this summer regardless so there was no loss there.
The first issue with the trade is how the minutes distribution moving forward will look. We know Harts most likely going to take McBrides minutes moving forward but he only played at most 10 minutes a game. Thibs being a huge hart guy there is no doubt Hart at least sees a floor of 25 minutes a night. We all know Brunson and Randles minutes won’t be changed. Which means Rj Gimes and Quicks minutes on any given night will decrease by 15 minutes and Quick was already not playing enough given his talent. In almost any scenario I rather have any of the three of on the court over Hart especially since they are all 22 years old with more room to grow than Hart.
The next issue with the trade is how many more games will Harts minutes win us this season? Is the 2-4 games at best worth our first rounder? It looks like we will end up as the seventh of eighth slot. How much more of a fighting chance does Hart give us against the Celtics and Bucks?
We most likely gave up the 15th-18th pick in this years draft for 30 games of Josh Hart who will now be our 7th best player (JB, Randle, RJ, IQ, Grimes, Mitch) and sixth best offensive player.
Keep in mind Josh Hart is a free agent this offseason so we could've got him this summer without giving up draft capital.
We also have the Mavs pick this year which will fall into the 15-20 range. The pick we just gave up for Hart which will land in 15-18 slot if we combined those two we could've moved up close to the 10th pick or even added another protected first and gotten even higher in the draft giving us a chance to possibly draft a additional first, second, or third option for the team moving forward.
We know this current roster assembly of Randle Brunson RJ isn't going to win a championship or make a Finals and a long shot for the ECF. It seems like every move besides the Brunson one since this new Knicks regime has made has been a lateral move and nothing needle moving. Giving up a asset that was sought out for before this season a Knicks unprotected 2023 first that could've been used in a Donovan Mitchell trade for a third of a season of josh hart just doesn't make sense. We need to eventually make that Star move, tapping into the war chest and stop fiddling between mediocrity with the Burks Noel Rose Elfrid Payton Kemba Fournier Isiah Hart signings who have taken up minutes just for a few more wins. Yes being in the playoffs as the 8th seed is better than the bottom but you can't live in the middle of the NBA for so long its a dangerous game and it seems like for the past three years we have done that with nothing coming up ahead to change that.
Salary wise Hart will also want at least 15 million a year moving forward, its clear in the NBA that you will not win a championship without a Star so playing above average role players a good chunk of your cap space isn't ideal. Correct me if I'm wrong but with Cam and rose gone this summer and if we shed Fournier's contract we had enough to sign a max guy depending on how many years he's been in the league and if needed we could've added Obis or Harts contract if it was a Max that was above the 40 range.
Based on past behavior, I think Deuce will be relegated to the bench and deemed situational moving forward. Hate to see that but understand if it happens. I hope this doesn’t kill the kids confidence just as he was just starting to come around. I would love to see a few less RJ minutes too. No need to play RJ 37 a night.
Agreed - get RJ to 30 mins. Keep Miles in rotation. This is starting to look like a knicks team i recognize from way back.
I really like this trade. Hart is a really nice add for this team, someone I liked more than basically all the other realistic options out there.
Overall, I think you said it best last night (and this is all being said with the presumption Hart resigns), IQ/Grimes/Hart is a great complimentary trio of role players who can play with basically anyone and with each other, and all bring something unique. This solidifies the roster, both short and long term.
As you prob have realized, I have been quite pessimistic about this FO and whats next (as we have spoken about before). But this is a good move and gives me more confidence in their plan, which is what has always worried me the most. If Hart resigns, this is a solid foundation building move for a good price, and expands potential horizons (even if its slightly).
I've been skeptical as well. Feel a tad better about things after the last few days.
Karma's a bitch Nets. Guess you shouldn't have jettisoned commitment for crazy. Stick with the one who got you there. Tip a little out for Atkinson tonight. Back to Culture Nets I guess.
I'm sure Kenny is smiling somewhere.
The ironic part about it is if they had kept the Atkinson team together, with Allen and Russell, and Dinwidde, and all those other guys, they’d probably be just as good if not better than Brooklyn is today.
Interesting note about J. Grant turning down a $117 million extension offer. Randle’s deal looks better and better.
Inflation is very real and coming for the NBA in a big way
But the cap is going up, or so they say.
Looking at who we are right now...a scrappy team gutting out wins against quality opponents, it makes a lot of sense to trade three guys who aren't playing for one guy who will get quality minutes and can be a great defender and rebounder. The first sucks to lose but we've done well with late round firsts and our pick vs. Dallas' isn't going to be that different and we don't really have room to play more rookies assuming we like our roster. I don't know much about Hart but I have a friend who's a Blazers fan and he's pretty high on him.
Josh is hart is an underrated version of OG. Fred Katz talked about it on the pod with Jon. Many of OG's threes are wide ass open. I would love to see some stats comparing these players from a shooting perspective. Just as an aside. I theorize that the Knicks scouting is obsessed with wingspan. Josh hart is short yes but a 6'9 wingspan. IQ: 6'8, Deuce: 6'9 Grimes: 6'8.
Underrated reason all those guys are exceptional defenders.
I sort of view Hart the same way. Smaller version, less shooting, less creation, but maybe a better all around offensive player in a supporting role.
Mac thanks for the analysis, particularly on why Portland made this trade. I was so perplexed as to why Portland made a non win now trade. I see why the Knicks made the trade. Like you said, as always, follow the money.
Dame is rotting away in Portland. Good luck out west with Luka/Kyrie and Book/KD.
LeBron going to bed 😁
LeBron checking his phone in morning 😑
I bet Dame becomes a Laker before he's retired. And you're welcome, my pleasure!
Thanks for the great trade/deadline coverage, KFS! Josh fits theseThiby Knicks to a T. A winning team has to have heart!
I started following the NBA when the former Postmaster General [which used to be a big political deal] Walter Kennedy was the Commissioner. David Stern, I believe, succeeded him. With cocaine, off court antics, franchises moving, and White players disappearing-----the League, went Madison Avenue & Hollywood, deciding to sell the GAME as a STAR driven contest. Media loves talking about and promoting stars! No longer Celtics versus Lakers. The event became Bird versus Magic. And, we've never looked back.
The Long Island/NJ/BKLYN Nets had a good thing going. But, they wanted to dance with the stars and tried to make a big splash. They went for a basketball version of soccer's Real Madrid's "galácticos." Basketball mercenaries with no loyalty to the Nets organization, its fans, or the larger community. And, in a short span it blew up spectacularly.
I am showing my advanced age [get off my lawn]], but I don't care. Fuck NBA divas. Good riddance. #LGK
LOL I'm just getting to this now but boy did it make my day. Thank you Jonathan. Always enjoy your posts.
By getting Josh Hart, the Knicks filled multiple needs and gave up so little. When Thibs and the front office are in sync, they can really pull off some good shit.
Good, minor move by the Knicks. The good is that Hart is another effort player, great rebounder for a guard, nice passer, good defender. The bad is he can’t shoot and in a shooter’s league, the Knicks are still woeful in that department. Knicks don’t get beyond the play-in/first round, without another shooter.
JMAC, great newsletter, thanks for staying up late to write it!.
I have two questions.
1. Does the KD trade now reset the market? Four unprotected picks is now the standard for a superstar. The Gobert trade looks even worse somehow. The market for the OG's of the world relaxes a bit. There is a chance Joe Tsai might have saved the NBA from itself.
2. Is Mikal Bridges or a disgruntled Brandon Ingram the next trade target for the Knicks this summer?
Let me get the former out of the way - if the market resets (and depending on what Brooklyn wants to do, they're still talented enough for, I'll even say, the 7th seed) Mikal Bridges could be netted for a first or two and matching salary. He reunites with his Villanova backcourt and the Knicks still have a great offense and an improved defense.
The latter though is far more interesting. Let's say the Pelicans get bounced early this year. BI gets frustrated, Pelicans were already frustrated with his recovery. The Knicks offer RJ, Grimes or Quick, Obi and 2 firsts (market reset assumed and Josh Hart extended). BI plays with Josh Hart and Julius again. Zion plays with his best friend in RJ, the Pelicans get younger but still in a position to compete, banking on RJ to take that leap of get flipped for someone else.
Thank you for the kind words Jason!
1) I think the NBA has sort of agreed that the Gobert thing was a one-off. As for OG, I suspect it will still take a lot to get him, but less than some might have suspected a few weeks ago.
2) I have long kept a side eye on Ingram. I just wonder if/why he'd push to leave.
I'm happy with this move. I just hope the pick they traded doesn't turn out to be another diamond in the rough. I hope the pick is protected to the 20s....but most likely it will be in the teens.
On a night where Brunson’s jersey was retired by Villanova, interesting evening for the school’s alumni. Hart, Bridges, even Arcidiacono, all former college teammates of Jalen from that 2016 championship squad.
The Hart trade is fine. I didn’t expect our front office to do much but the caveat should have been that if a CAA client becomes available…….. Definitely a Thibs type.
Wilt Chamberlain was traded mid-season by the Warriors to 76ers at his peak,for KD equivalent trade.
I am trying to figure out Hart minutes. If RJ and Brunson play 32 each and Grimes 28 that leaves 52 off the bench. Assuming Duece is situational splitting 52 between IQ and Hart seems about right.
Ahhhhh....bad job by me. Forgot about the Wilt trade. Good call.
Agree the minutes are worth watching.
So I think the key to figuring out if the Knicks have another move in them is figuring out what other options the Raptors have. They may or may not come back to us. They have multiple options, it seems, and our only option is to hope they call us back because they want RJ for OG. It sure looked like their first preferred option was to try to get Ayton from the Suns for a package centered on OG, and pair him with Siakam, but now that ship has sailed and Ayton stays, or at least that sure looks to be the case. So now that Brooklyn has made their deal, now the Raptors are up next. It’s widely assumed that they are at very least going to move Trent, but do they pull off a wider deal, and who do they choose to partner up with as the clock gets closer to 3pm.
Hello Jon here are my thoughts on the Hart trade and want to know if you feel the same.
First I would like to acknowledge that the Knicks got better as a team for this season from the trade and Cam was out of the rotation and gone this summer regardless so there was no loss there.
The first issue with the trade is how the minutes distribution moving forward will look. We know Harts most likely going to take McBrides minutes moving forward but he only played at most 10 minutes a game. Thibs being a huge hart guy there is no doubt Hart at least sees a floor of 25 minutes a night. We all know Brunson and Randles minutes won’t be changed. Which means Rj Gimes and Quicks minutes on any given night will decrease by 15 minutes and Quick was already not playing enough given his talent. In almost any scenario I rather have any of the three of on the court over Hart especially since they are all 22 years old with more room to grow than Hart.
The next issue with the trade is how many more games will Harts minutes win us this season? Is the 2-4 games at best worth our first rounder? It looks like we will end up as the seventh of eighth slot. How much more of a fighting chance does Hart give us against the Celtics and Bucks?
We most likely gave up the 15th-18th pick in this years draft for 30 games of Josh Hart who will now be our 7th best player (JB, Randle, RJ, IQ, Grimes, Mitch) and sixth best offensive player.
Keep in mind Josh Hart is a free agent this offseason so we could've got him this summer without giving up draft capital.
We also have the Mavs pick this year which will fall into the 15-20 range. The pick we just gave up for Hart which will land in 15-18 slot if we combined those two we could've moved up close to the 10th pick or even added another protected first and gotten even higher in the draft giving us a chance to possibly draft a additional first, second, or third option for the team moving forward.
We know this current roster assembly of Randle Brunson RJ isn't going to win a championship or make a Finals and a long shot for the ECF. It seems like every move besides the Brunson one since this new Knicks regime has made has been a lateral move and nothing needle moving. Giving up a asset that was sought out for before this season a Knicks unprotected 2023 first that could've been used in a Donovan Mitchell trade for a third of a season of josh hart just doesn't make sense. We need to eventually make that Star move, tapping into the war chest and stop fiddling between mediocrity with the Burks Noel Rose Elfrid Payton Kemba Fournier Isiah Hart signings who have taken up minutes just for a few more wins. Yes being in the playoffs as the 8th seed is better than the bottom but you can't live in the middle of the NBA for so long its a dangerous game and it seems like for the past three years we have done that with nothing coming up ahead to change that.
Salary wise Hart will also want at least 15 million a year moving forward, its clear in the NBA that you will not win a championship without a Star so playing above average role players a good chunk of your cap space isn't ideal. Correct me if I'm wrong but with Cam and rose gone this summer and if we shed Fournier's contract we had enough to sign a max guy depending on how many years he's been in the league and if needed we could've added Obis or Harts contract if it was a Max that was above the 40 range.