Great newsletter! The fact that the majority of our fanbase is saying “Nah” on Dame to NYK is a huge graduation for us and it’s worth noting. Our days of salivating over “any star” willing to entertain a conversation are behind us. The media has not caught up to this because it’s still too clickworthy to push “ ____ to Gotham” narratives, but we’re not that desperate. We’ve got a good core and a fun team to watch and that might just be enough for a bit. We’re not one piece away and should operate as such. I’m not too worried about where Dame goes as we have no control over that. If it loosens up a follow-on deal for us...all the better, but I’m super interested to see our team as is compete this season.
Hola Jonathan ! Super amazingly awesome newsletter as usual! I think I don’t tell you that enough. One Knicks Film School is worth a dozen ESPNs. Seriously dude, this newsletter is amazing. Just had to let you know that. Ok, on to the question.
All this talk about Dame got me thinking: which position do the Ks need to upgrade the most in order to vault to the category of “contender”? Like, if we could keep the whole roster - or at least the major players - intact but swap out one position, which swap would give us the best ROI? Mitch, cuz unclogging the lane would make JR & RJ SOOOO much better, so that one swap actually improves three positions? RJ/SG/SF cuz wouldn’t it be nice to have an SG / SF who could actually shoot? IQ cuz his shooting goes so hot and cold that it can’t really be relied upon in the playoffs, as he, like Julius, has shown twice now? Just curious, & have no idea how to even go about tackling such a question. Just a thought. Keep up the great work - and thanks!!!!
I have to be honest, I was a little surprised at how much time was spent on considering the pros of going after Lillard for NYK. I'm glad Jon put it out there, even as the larger point is why the team SHOULD NOT pursue him.
As a Knicks fan living in Portland, I think everyone has grown a little wary of the Lillard saga...and forgotten what an incredible player he is. Whoever gets him will have a fighter's chance.
More than anything I like the drama of a new great team - and a well balanced one at that. Dame, Jimmy, and Bam would be awesome to watch, and fun to go against as a NYK fan. Having him land in the East in general would be good for my eyes.
I wonder how much the law suit MSG initiated against Toronto will affect the ability of these teams to do business even if OG is part of a three team deal and OG technically comes from Portland instead of Toronto?
Also, I’m surprised that Fournier is still on the team (I assume there were no doable offers); but mostly surprised that the Knicks are going to ride with Hart as the back-up four. Even if you believe Hart will be a serviceable back-up four, I think the the gamble the Knicks are that Randle stays healthy all season is a poor one.
TBH, hadn't even thought of it. Great point/question.
Re: the backup four, its more a minutes issue than anything else. They simply don't have the minutes to go around. If and when Randle goes down, I think they're confident enough in small ball to ride it out.
Blazers get: Gary Trent Jr., Evan Fournier, 2026/2028/2030 FRPs from TOR, 2024/2026 FRPs from NYK
You can of course play around with the specific draft compensation and if Portland actually views RJ as an asset (questionable), he’d likely have to be involved. The framework more or less checks out though, IMO.
I can't for the life of me imagine a team with JB, OG, RJ and Julius all on it. That's 4 guys who want a 25 usage rate. As for picks, my educated guess is that NY was willing to get OG using mostly protected picks. I doubt they'd include any of their own selections past 2024. I like where you're thinking though.
For sure, I think if something like this were to happen RJ would have to go out either in the same deal or a subsequent one.
It could be a four-team trade with RJ going to a different team that sends additional draft compensation to Portland (or replenishes the Knicks' coffers), or we could just send him directly to Portland if they want him (I'm skeptical, given their current team structure/dedication to Scoot--there's a "one ball" problem).
I was thinking about whether Portland would want RJ. They don't really have that prototypical big wing. Grant is more of a 4, and besides, he's older and a candidate to get traded at some point.
The theoretical fit isn't bad at all, I guess the hang up is thus far RJ's fit pretty much anywhere hasn't gone beyond "theoretical." To put a finer point on it, Portland might not want RJ because RJ has yet to be a good NBA player.
I honestly have no idea how RJ is viewed around the league. On one hand, the archetype of "high-usage big wing" is obviously highly sought. On the other, there's really no getting past his lack of production through *four* seasons. I don't think the kind of leap RJ needs to make to be unambiguously good is unprecedented after four seasons...but I also don't think it's all that common.
This is so well said. I think if you're trading for him, you're basically betting on the decision making / court vision / processing from the playoffs being the new norm, and the shooting to be around 36-37% from deep over the next five seasons. That's a starting NBA wing who is worth more or less what he's being paid.
For sure, if he can just get the shooting to that level on reasonable volume most concerns about his contract would be allayed.
A comparison I've made before that I think would offend RJ's biggest supporters but I don't mean insultingly is Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins made himself essential to a title team by being a reliable spot-up shooter who could create some offense in a pinch but wasn't relied on in that sense, and using his physical gifts to be a defensive asset.
That seems like a reasonable goal for RJ. Of course, it's not clear to me that Wiggins' contract would be viewed positive if he wasn't playing alongside a Mount Rushmore candidate...
I wish for Mitch to be healthy and play a lot of games because the team is better when he plays. Wishing for him to play 80 so that he will have played more games than anyone since 2000 other than Carmelo seems a little strange though, when, even if he does that, he will have barely played more games than RJ and Randle (assuming they are also healthy) and they will have done it in one less season. For example, RJ has played 271 games since 2019 to 223 for Mitch, while Randle has played 284 games.
If Mitch plays 80 games this season, he will have played 303 games as a Knick during those 4 year and a total of 369 in his Knicks career. If RJ plays 80 games, he will have played 351 and if Randle plays 80, he will have played 364 (Randle). So, he will have only played 5 more games than Randle and 18 more games than RJ in one more season.
Will his playing barely more games in one more year make him more important and significant than those 2? Or does it really highlight that both RJ and Randle will have played the equivalent of almost a full season more than Mitch during the time they have been on the team?
Wasn't thinking nearly this deeply into it. Just thought it was a cool thing considering most people figured he'd be the sort of player to bounce around the league rather than settle into a home, let alone one as dysfunctional as NY was at the time.
Fair enough. It's just hard to see how you would choose 80 games so that he would have played more games than anyone other than Melo without considering how may games Rj and Randle have played with the Knicks. Reality is that he is unlikely to every play more games than either by the end of this year (or ever) unless one of them is traded or has a serious injury because both are less injury prone.
Yeah, like I said, I just thought it was a fun thing specific to Mitch. If and when those other guys get there, we'll celebrate that as well. But I was also saving different exciting things for them for higher in the list. Again, this isn't any sort of an official ranking. Just having some fun before camp opens.
Great newsletter! The fact that the majority of our fanbase is saying “Nah” on Dame to NYK is a huge graduation for us and it’s worth noting. Our days of salivating over “any star” willing to entertain a conversation are behind us. The media has not caught up to this because it’s still too clickworthy to push “ ____ to Gotham” narratives, but we’re not that desperate. We’ve got a good core and a fun team to watch and that might just be enough for a bit. We’re not one piece away and should operate as such. I’m not too worried about where Dame goes as we have no control over that. If it loosens up a follow-on deal for us...all the better, but I’m super interested to see our team as is compete this season.
Same here. Well said all around!
Send Dame to Miami, we'll beat they asses anyway
#Mid3forLife
#ECF
Hola Jonathan ! Super amazingly awesome newsletter as usual! I think I don’t tell you that enough. One Knicks Film School is worth a dozen ESPNs. Seriously dude, this newsletter is amazing. Just had to let you know that. Ok, on to the question.
All this talk about Dame got me thinking: which position do the Ks need to upgrade the most in order to vault to the category of “contender”? Like, if we could keep the whole roster - or at least the major players - intact but swap out one position, which swap would give us the best ROI? Mitch, cuz unclogging the lane would make JR & RJ SOOOO much better, so that one swap actually improves three positions? RJ/SG/SF cuz wouldn’t it be nice to have an SG / SF who could actually shoot? IQ cuz his shooting goes so hot and cold that it can’t really be relied upon in the playoffs, as he, like Julius, has shown twice now? Just curious, & have no idea how to even go about tackling such a question. Just a thought. Keep up the great work - and thanks!!!!
Marcus, you know how to pump a guy up on a bleh Tuesday morning lol. Thank you!
As for this question, it's a great one. Going to try to make a newsletter out of it for Thursday.
I have to be honest, I was a little surprised at how much time was spent on considering the pros of going after Lillard for NYK. I'm glad Jon put it out there, even as the larger point is why the team SHOULD NOT pursue him.
As a Knicks fan living in Portland, I think everyone has grown a little wary of the Lillard saga...and forgotten what an incredible player he is. Whoever gets him will have a fighter's chance.
I just didn't want anyone to accuse me of not giving the idea its fair consideration :)
More than anything I like the drama of a new great team - and a well balanced one at that. Dame, Jimmy, and Bam would be awesome to watch, and fun to go against as a NYK fan. Having him land in the East in general would be good for my eyes.
I wonder how much the law suit MSG initiated against Toronto will affect the ability of these teams to do business even if OG is part of a three team deal and OG technically comes from Portland instead of Toronto?
Also, I’m surprised that Fournier is still on the team (I assume there were no doable offers); but mostly surprised that the Knicks are going to ride with Hart as the back-up four. Even if you believe Hart will be a serviceable back-up four, I think the the gamble the Knicks are that Randle stays healthy all season is a poor one.
TBH, hadn't even thought of it. Great point/question.
Re: the backup four, its more a minutes issue than anything else. They simply don't have the minutes to go around. If and when Randle goes down, I think they're confident enough in small ball to ride it out.
Raptors get: Dame
Knicks get: OG Anunoby
Blazers get: Gary Trent Jr., Evan Fournier, 2026/2028/2030 FRPs from TOR, 2024/2026 FRPs from NYK
You can of course play around with the specific draft compensation and if Portland actually views RJ as an asset (questionable), he’d likely have to be involved. The framework more or less checks out though, IMO.
I can't for the life of me imagine a team with JB, OG, RJ and Julius all on it. That's 4 guys who want a 25 usage rate. As for picks, my educated guess is that NY was willing to get OG using mostly protected picks. I doubt they'd include any of their own selections past 2024. I like where you're thinking though.
For sure, I think if something like this were to happen RJ would have to go out either in the same deal or a subsequent one.
It could be a four-team trade with RJ going to a different team that sends additional draft compensation to Portland (or replenishes the Knicks' coffers), or we could just send him directly to Portland if they want him (I'm skeptical, given their current team structure/dedication to Scoot--there's a "one ball" problem).
I was thinking about whether Portland would want RJ. They don't really have that prototypical big wing. Grant is more of a 4, and besides, he's older and a candidate to get traded at some point.
The theoretical fit isn't bad at all, I guess the hang up is thus far RJ's fit pretty much anywhere hasn't gone beyond "theoretical." To put a finer point on it, Portland might not want RJ because RJ has yet to be a good NBA player.
I honestly have no idea how RJ is viewed around the league. On one hand, the archetype of "high-usage big wing" is obviously highly sought. On the other, there's really no getting past his lack of production through *four* seasons. I don't think the kind of leap RJ needs to make to be unambiguously good is unprecedented after four seasons...but I also don't think it's all that common.
This is so well said. I think if you're trading for him, you're basically betting on the decision making / court vision / processing from the playoffs being the new norm, and the shooting to be around 36-37% from deep over the next five seasons. That's a starting NBA wing who is worth more or less what he's being paid.
For sure, if he can just get the shooting to that level on reasonable volume most concerns about his contract would be allayed.
A comparison I've made before that I think would offend RJ's biggest supporters but I don't mean insultingly is Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins made himself essential to a title team by being a reliable spot-up shooter who could create some offense in a pinch but wasn't relied on in that sense, and using his physical gifts to be a defensive asset.
That seems like a reasonable goal for RJ. Of course, it's not clear to me that Wiggins' contract would be viewed positive if he wasn't playing alongside a Mount Rushmore candidate...
I wish for Mitch to be healthy and play a lot of games because the team is better when he plays. Wishing for him to play 80 so that he will have played more games than anyone since 2000 other than Carmelo seems a little strange though, when, even if he does that, he will have barely played more games than RJ and Randle (assuming they are also healthy) and they will have done it in one less season. For example, RJ has played 271 games since 2019 to 223 for Mitch, while Randle has played 284 games.
If Mitch plays 80 games this season, he will have played 303 games as a Knick during those 4 year and a total of 369 in his Knicks career. If RJ plays 80 games, he will have played 351 and if Randle plays 80, he will have played 364 (Randle). So, he will have only played 5 more games than Randle and 18 more games than RJ in one more season.
Will his playing barely more games in one more year make him more important and significant than those 2? Or does it really highlight that both RJ and Randle will have played the equivalent of almost a full season more than Mitch during the time they have been on the team?
Wasn't thinking nearly this deeply into it. Just thought it was a cool thing considering most people figured he'd be the sort of player to bounce around the league rather than settle into a home, let alone one as dysfunctional as NY was at the time.
Fair enough. It's just hard to see how you would choose 80 games so that he would have played more games than anyone other than Melo without considering how may games Rj and Randle have played with the Knicks. Reality is that he is unlikely to every play more games than either by the end of this year (or ever) unless one of them is traded or has a serious injury because both are less injury prone.
Yeah, like I said, I just thought it was a fun thing specific to Mitch. If and when those other guys get there, we'll celebrate that as well. But I was also saving different exciting things for them for higher in the list. Again, this isn't any sort of an official ranking. Just having some fun before camp opens.