If you liked the 1990's NBA where unless there was blood & perhaps broken bones, no foul would be called, then last night's game was right up your alley. The Magic decided they would revert to the '90's NBA style & with the help of the refs, got away with a large part of it! (Orlando Coach Mosley did a sit down comedy routine after the game where he complained that the Knicks got 30 free throws!). But the Knicks stood up to the challenge & came away with a very hard fought win! When Pidto said at the start of the game, Orlando was starting a big lineup, the worry was how a smaller Knicks lineup would match up. but match up they did. They outrebounded Orlando 45-39 & were only out offensive rebounded 7-10! JB & KAT stepped up big time & Thibs basically went with a 7 man rotation (Payne only played 9 minutes!). It was great to see this version of the Knicks step up & be physical! It was something, for the most part, was missing from last years' version! Now, another 3 days off before heading up to Minnesota to see old friends JR & Donte!
I loved the 1990’s and the rough and tumble NBA. But maybe I loved it because we were the roughest and toughest. Oakley, Mase, Pat, Starks and various times guys like McDaniel , Harper, Rivers, etc. Teams played in fear against the Knicks and rarely hit back because the Knicks had the meanest, toughest guy on the block in Charles Oakley.
Last year’s team imitated those teams which is why many of us loved that team. It would be awesome if this team picked up even 20% of that fire.
Great recap as usual, Jon. I’m glad Mikal got the three stars as I thought he deserved it despite gaudier numbers from KAT and Brunson. His defense set the tone all night. Going into the game, Suggs figured to be Orlando’s most dangerous offensive threat and he was shut down. It was nice to see the Knicks win a slog but I’m not going to make any far reaching conclusions from a team perspective as I’ve been fooled before this season, but it’d be great if this signals what we can expect from Mikal the rest of the way.
This is an extremely weak schedule, bolstered by all the guys ORL is missing and playing them 3x.
I don't care about the context of the team. This is the month to go on a run. We need to pile on wins before the schedule gets tougher. Hopefully this is the beginning of one.
It wasn’t pretty, and they didn’t start well, but that performance showed the “F U” attitude I’ve been waiting to see from this team all season. From Payne going at WCJ, to Mikal mocking Goga’s travel, and Brunson screaming at Suggs - these are the kind of things I like to see. They may not be the grittiest team in the league, but that shouldn’t stop them from playing with some edge. I want to see more.
I don’t put Franz in the same category as his brother. Franz is a skilled basketball player. His brother shouldn’t be on the court for more than 10 minutes. It the refs. You can’t impede a player going to the basket while moving. The refs allow one push for the defender. The league makes the rules and when fans stop watching because it’s not basketball the league changes rules. Just play god dam basketball
Great to hear about Mikal's defense and for the fight they showed. That being said, Orlando was without it's 2 best players. That's like us playing without JB and Kat.
I would have been horrified if we lost and I was happy with our pushback and toughness. But I am far from satisfied. Did we finally play some first tier defense or were we just facing a team that shot, as Jon, said “abhorrently” and was missing its top offensive threats. This was more of a Pat Riley “there’s winning and there’s misery” game for me and less of Thibsian “ winning is more fun than fun is” game.
I too loved the 90's Knicks. But, the league changed the rules to get rid of much of what the Magic were doing, especially Suggs. Regarding Thibs epic rant, he actually needs to do more jockeying of the refs. A lot more. And he needs to do it in the games. His schtick about call it loose or call it tight, we don't care, just call it consistent, doesn't really help us now we are a top offensive team. Call it the way they call it on all the other teams in the league. Working the refs in the game is part of the job. Recently, James Edwards of the Athletic wrote an article about how Thibs had never been ejected. Well, Rick Carlisle got himself ejected after game 2 last year and got the refs to change the way they officiated the games. It really hurt us. I actually admired Mosley complaining after the game about the free throw disparity. Thibs needs to more aggressively stick up for our guys. If he gets ejected a couple times, Rick Brunson or Mo Cheeks can bring us home.
Part of the reason the Magic can exert so much effort on defense is that no one plays too many minutes. Somehow missing their two best players, the Magic managed to play 10 players at least 9 minutes and still got the other three guys in the game and they competed hard til the end. That was only game 26. Playing an 8 man rotation and really trusting 7 is something for the playoffs not the regular season. I think Pacome was in Westchester, which is important for development, but we need to play another wing and another big. Put Ryan or Toppin or Hukporti out there for 8 minutes and tell them to get into guys and make them feel them on defense. Or bring up Okeke or Warren from Westchester if those guys won't play defense. If we definitely have a trade lined up fine, but if not and someone gets injured closer to or in the playoffs, we will be in a world of trouble playing guys with no experience.
Suggs isn’t close to being an elite point guard running the pick and roll. No Banchero or his picks to run through. No Franz to drive a defense nuts. A win is a win. This isn’t a statement win. Am I wrong or are you conceding our elite offensive stats aren’t enough. I admittedly didn’t see the game so I have to ask, after Detroit and Atlanta how did the come out as sloppy as you described in your beautifully written column
I don’t care if it’s rough, tough, or genteel. The Refs aren’t consistent, it shouldn’t take a quarter of basketball for the players to figure out how they’re going to be calling the game. They supposedly changed the rules about players backing into a defender while shooting. J B adjusted his game on that rule change. In the game against Atlanta Trae backed into Bridges, it was very obvious. The refs can’t miss that call since he should have been called the “Trae Young” rule. If I saw it the refs have no excuse. The Knicks got more foul shots than Orlando, but that shouldn’t stop the refs from calling fouls. Orlando plays like we will foul the refs can’t call them all. When in fact they should call the fouls equally. I already have a problem with a jump shot being worth more than a well devised play at the rim. It’s a little backwards. Refs discouraging plays at the rim by allowing fouls is counter productive from my standpoint point. Change the rules, a basket by an assist should be worth more than a jump shot beyond an imaginary line. Pretty soon jump shots from mid court will be the norm.. I don’t like it.
This was the signature win of the year thus far. Super sloppy start, but even still I noticed Knick defenders making a concerted effort to fight through screens and return to their assignment even when they got picked off. Thibs had to have made this a point of emphasis. Mikhail in particular was outstanding in staying connected and playing on a string with his guys. Second, this looked like it’d be another game where Knick fans had endless posts with videos of calls that weren’t made and we’d use this as tissues for our tears. Nope, not tonight. It was great to see the boys respond with toughness and bring the fight back to Orlando in a whistle swallowed fist fight. This is a team unity building win that shows we can’t bring whatever the moment dictates.
Reflecting the Knicks had their very private team meeting / talk etc and transmuted as necessary to win games. My earlier comment on the mock “dice rolling” … sharing here again: “Brunson stands, watching the un-named opponent unwisely choose to be disrespectful on the Knick’s center court. Let it all sink in, Captain ~ now lead your team. It’s wake-up time.” Brunson is wisely stoic, and the Knicks now show the beneficial effects of their mighty Captain. GRATITUDE
If you liked the 1990's NBA where unless there was blood & perhaps broken bones, no foul would be called, then last night's game was right up your alley. The Magic decided they would revert to the '90's NBA style & with the help of the refs, got away with a large part of it! (Orlando Coach Mosley did a sit down comedy routine after the game where he complained that the Knicks got 30 free throws!). But the Knicks stood up to the challenge & came away with a very hard fought win! When Pidto said at the start of the game, Orlando was starting a big lineup, the worry was how a smaller Knicks lineup would match up. but match up they did. They outrebounded Orlando 45-39 & were only out offensive rebounded 7-10! JB & KAT stepped up big time & Thibs basically went with a 7 man rotation (Payne only played 9 minutes!). It was great to see this version of the Knicks step up & be physical! It was something, for the most part, was missing from last years' version! Now, another 3 days off before heading up to Minnesota to see old friends JR & Donte!
I loved the 1990’s and the rough and tumble NBA. But maybe I loved it because we were the roughest and toughest. Oakley, Mase, Pat, Starks and various times guys like McDaniel , Harper, Rivers, etc. Teams played in fear against the Knicks and rarely hit back because the Knicks had the meanest, toughest guy on the block in Charles Oakley.
Last year’s team imitated those teams which is why many of us loved that team. It would be awesome if this team picked up even 20% of that fire.
Great recap as usual, Jon. I’m glad Mikal got the three stars as I thought he deserved it despite gaudier numbers from KAT and Brunson. His defense set the tone all night. Going into the game, Suggs figured to be Orlando’s most dangerous offensive threat and he was shut down. It was nice to see the Knicks win a slog but I’m not going to make any far reaching conclusions from a team perspective as I’ve been fooled before this season, but it’d be great if this signals what we can expect from Mikal the rest of the way.
This is an extremely weak schedule, bolstered by all the guys ORL is missing and playing them 3x.
I don't care about the context of the team. This is the month to go on a run. We need to pile on wins before the schedule gets tougher. Hopefully this is the beginning of one.
It wasn’t pretty, and they didn’t start well, but that performance showed the “F U” attitude I’ve been waiting to see from this team all season. From Payne going at WCJ, to Mikal mocking Goga’s travel, and Brunson screaming at Suggs - these are the kind of things I like to see. They may not be the grittiest team in the league, but that shouldn’t stop them from playing with some edge. I want to see more.
The Wagner Brothers are top contenders for most punchable faces in the league. Do they start whining in the layup line?
Very satisfying win, I found myself yelling at the TV more than usual- and mostly at the refs, not the Knicks!
I don’t put Franz in the same category as his brother. Franz is a skilled basketball player. His brother shouldn’t be on the court for more than 10 minutes. It the refs. You can’t impede a player going to the basket while moving. The refs allow one push for the defender. The league makes the rules and when fans stop watching because it’s not basketball the league changes rules. Just play god dam basketball
Great to hear about Mikal's defense and for the fight they showed. That being said, Orlando was without it's 2 best players. That's like us playing without JB and Kat.
I would have been horrified if we lost and I was happy with our pushback and toughness. But I am far from satisfied. Did we finally play some first tier defense or were we just facing a team that shot, as Jon, said “abhorrently” and was missing its top offensive threats. This was more of a Pat Riley “there’s winning and there’s misery” game for me and less of Thibsian “ winning is more fun than fun is” game.
It was a good win.
I too loved the 90's Knicks. But, the league changed the rules to get rid of much of what the Magic were doing, especially Suggs. Regarding Thibs epic rant, he actually needs to do more jockeying of the refs. A lot more. And he needs to do it in the games. His schtick about call it loose or call it tight, we don't care, just call it consistent, doesn't really help us now we are a top offensive team. Call it the way they call it on all the other teams in the league. Working the refs in the game is part of the job. Recently, James Edwards of the Athletic wrote an article about how Thibs had never been ejected. Well, Rick Carlisle got himself ejected after game 2 last year and got the refs to change the way they officiated the games. It really hurt us. I actually admired Mosley complaining after the game about the free throw disparity. Thibs needs to more aggressively stick up for our guys. If he gets ejected a couple times, Rick Brunson or Mo Cheeks can bring us home.
Part of the reason the Magic can exert so much effort on defense is that no one plays too many minutes. Somehow missing their two best players, the Magic managed to play 10 players at least 9 minutes and still got the other three guys in the game and they competed hard til the end. That was only game 26. Playing an 8 man rotation and really trusting 7 is something for the playoffs not the regular season. I think Pacome was in Westchester, which is important for development, but we need to play another wing and another big. Put Ryan or Toppin or Hukporti out there for 8 minutes and tell them to get into guys and make them feel them on defense. Or bring up Okeke or Warren from Westchester if those guys won't play defense. If we definitely have a trade lined up fine, but if not and someone gets injured closer to or in the playoffs, we will be in a world of trouble playing guys with no experience.
Puff the Dragon catching strays in the wee hours of Monday morning!😳 😝
But…as Ken said above…Winning is more fun than fun is fun.
Suggs isn’t close to being an elite point guard running the pick and roll. No Banchero or his picks to run through. No Franz to drive a defense nuts. A win is a win. This isn’t a statement win. Am I wrong or are you conceding our elite offensive stats aren’t enough. I admittedly didn’t see the game so I have to ask, after Detroit and Atlanta how did the come out as sloppy as you described in your beautifully written column
I don’t care if it’s rough, tough, or genteel. The Refs aren’t consistent, it shouldn’t take a quarter of basketball for the players to figure out how they’re going to be calling the game. They supposedly changed the rules about players backing into a defender while shooting. J B adjusted his game on that rule change. In the game against Atlanta Trae backed into Bridges, it was very obvious. The refs can’t miss that call since he should have been called the “Trae Young” rule. If I saw it the refs have no excuse. The Knicks got more foul shots than Orlando, but that shouldn’t stop the refs from calling fouls. Orlando plays like we will foul the refs can’t call them all. When in fact they should call the fouls equally. I already have a problem with a jump shot being worth more than a well devised play at the rim. It’s a little backwards. Refs discouraging plays at the rim by allowing fouls is counter productive from my standpoint point. Change the rules, a basket by an assist should be worth more than a jump shot beyond an imaginary line. Pretty soon jump shots from mid court will be the norm.. I don’t like it.
This was the signature win of the year thus far. Super sloppy start, but even still I noticed Knick defenders making a concerted effort to fight through screens and return to their assignment even when they got picked off. Thibs had to have made this a point of emphasis. Mikhail in particular was outstanding in staying connected and playing on a string with his guys. Second, this looked like it’d be another game where Knick fans had endless posts with videos of calls that weren’t made and we’d use this as tissues for our tears. Nope, not tonight. It was great to see the boys respond with toughness and bring the fight back to Orlando in a whistle swallowed fist fight. This is a team unity building win that shows we can’t bring whatever the moment dictates.
Reflecting the Knicks had their very private team meeting / talk etc and transmuted as necessary to win games. My earlier comment on the mock “dice rolling” … sharing here again: “Brunson stands, watching the un-named opponent unwisely choose to be disrespectful on the Knick’s center court. Let it all sink in, Captain ~ now lead your team. It’s wake-up time.” Brunson is wisely stoic, and the Knicks now show the beneficial effects of their mighty Captain. GRATITUDE