“there are only 17 players in the entire league that have never made an All-Star team and have been with their original team for more than four years.” That is a stunning and sad stat. No wonder everyone in the NBA talks about players as assets instead of people. A fairly inhuman system on both sides.
On the one hand, it feels intensely wrong to consider DRose as a top 50 Knick. As you say, he was really only great with us for less than half a season, his first year with the team was an utter calamity (which included him going AWOL for several games), and he fell out of the rotation altogether this year.
On the other, I remember when you did your top 50 Knicks countdown a while back, and there were some sketchy, sketchy guys at the bottom of that list.
Yeah. 40 games of being great, surrounded by one disastrous year, one mediocre and injury-plagued year, and one year where he barely played and looked washed when he did, isn't much of a sample size to prove immortality, if not for how few players we've had who've been very good to great in a Knick uniform for an extended period of time. Like, is Josh Hart already in consideration for how well he played after the trade?
Big week for the Knicks. If Hart chooses to opt out and be a UFA, the Knicks lose the ability to use the $12.2m MLE for one or several players; would likely need to trade Fournier for penny’s on the dollar to stay under the tax line; and would hinder their ability to trade for middling or higher-end players due to how much cash they can take back in a deal.
I keep thinking about the playoffs and how damaging it was to have a team that does not shoot consistently from deep and outside of Brunson they don’t have any players who can create high-quality shots on their own.
It’s important in building a team in any sport that management not fall prey to recency bias. They are overloaded with players whose consistent success comes from the paint and who shoot three’s inconsistently. And this is a league where three-point shooting only becomes more and more critical.
So let’s hope that Hart wants to help the team win not only on the court but also in the bank.
I'll go to my grave believing that we were a decent IQ or Randle series away from beating Miami. Teams have to go through battle scars so it is what it is
Joker talked repeatedly about how teams need to get beaten up a few times before they learn what it takes in the play offs. I am going to add poise and play off experience to what I would have taken to beat Miami, but I think if they ran it back next year against that same version of Miami they would win.
I think it is still relevant. I think with playoff experience we would have beaten Miami.
Talent wise, we are still clearly at least one star away from championship caliber, but I don’t know that anyone on the very top tier ( your list plus Giannis, Durant and Embiid) is shaking free anytime soon or that we are winning the bidding war if they do.
Really interesting Macri. Especially about whether players will improve together over time not being a huge thing. I guess the hope is that Grimes, IQ, Mitch, Obi, Deuce will all benefit from having this season together though right? Going into the playoffs, being young and all...to me this is another case where the offseason is really important. Will these guys grow physically, will they learn a new skill or two, will they be fully prepared to be guys who can put in 30 mins on a playoff team. They should have confidence and confidence goes a long way. Confidence in themselves and confidence in the team. They were not that far off you know? That's kind of incredible.
I'm solidly team #BrunItBack and I think I personally and we collectively underrate how big a change inserting Brunson, the Hart Foundation & removing Rose & Fournier from the rotation actually were. Brunson is the GUY and everything points to a gamble on internal improvement. I'm with it.
“there are only 17 players in the entire league that have never made an All-Star team and have been with their original team for more than four years.” That is a stunning and sad stat. No wonder everyone in the NBA talks about players as assets instead of people. A fairly inhuman system on both sides.
Yeah, I’m also uncomfortable with the use of the word asset to describe a human being.
On the one hand, it feels intensely wrong to consider DRose as a top 50 Knick. As you say, he was really only great with us for less than half a season, his first year with the team was an utter calamity (which included him going AWOL for several games), and he fell out of the rotation altogether this year.
On the other, I remember when you did your top 50 Knicks countdown a while back, and there were some sketchy, sketchy guys at the bottom of that list.
There was a cliff I remember falling off after you got past a certain number...maybe around 60.
Yeah. 40 games of being great, surrounded by one disastrous year, one mediocre and injury-plagued year, and one year where he barely played and looked washed when he did, isn't much of a sample size to prove immortality, if not for how few players we've had who've been very good to great in a Knick uniform for an extended period of time. Like, is Josh Hart already in consideration for how well he played after the trade?
Here's what my rankings were (nearly 2 years ago now) in the relevant area we're discussing:
45. Howard Komives
46. Jamal Crawford
47. Ray Williams
48. Derrick Rose
49. Dean Meminger
50. Mike Riordan
51. Jeremy Lin
52. Kristaps Porzingis
53. Tom Gola
54. Ray Felton
55. Dick Van Arsdale
56. Nate Robinson
57. Spencer Haywood
58. Chris Childs
59. Vince Boryla
60. RJ Barrett
In retrospect, Childs and KP seem too low.
Big week for the Knicks. If Hart chooses to opt out and be a UFA, the Knicks lose the ability to use the $12.2m MLE for one or several players; would likely need to trade Fournier for penny’s on the dollar to stay under the tax line; and would hinder their ability to trade for middling or higher-end players due to how much cash they can take back in a deal.
I keep thinking about the playoffs and how damaging it was to have a team that does not shoot consistently from deep and outside of Brunson they don’t have any players who can create high-quality shots on their own.
It’s important in building a team in any sport that management not fall prey to recency bias. They are overloaded with players whose consistent success comes from the paint and who shoot three’s inconsistently. And this is a league where three-point shooting only becomes more and more critical.
So let’s hope that Hart wants to help the team win not only on the court but also in the bank.
I'll go to my grave believing that we were a decent IQ or Randle series away from beating Miami. Teams have to go through battle scars so it is what it is
Joker talked repeatedly about how teams need to get beaten up a few times before they learn what it takes in the play offs. I am going to add poise and play off experience to what I would have taken to beat Miami, but I think if they ran it back next year against that same version of Miami they would win.
Thing is, we need a Joker, Curry, Lebron to make that statement relevant to the Knicks.
I think it is still relevant. I think with playoff experience we would have beaten Miami.
Talent wise, we are still clearly at least one star away from championship caliber, but I don’t know that anyone on the very top tier ( your list plus Giannis, Durant and Embiid) is shaking free anytime soon or that we are winning the bidding war if they do.
Really interesting Macri. Especially about whether players will improve together over time not being a huge thing. I guess the hope is that Grimes, IQ, Mitch, Obi, Deuce will all benefit from having this season together though right? Going into the playoffs, being young and all...to me this is another case where the offseason is really important. Will these guys grow physically, will they learn a new skill or two, will they be fully prepared to be guys who can put in 30 mins on a playoff team. They should have confidence and confidence goes a long way. Confidence in themselves and confidence in the team. They were not that far off you know? That's kind of incredible.
I think the playoff experience will matter for those guys a lot. And 100%, the offseason will be key.
I keep forgetting Fournier is still on this team.
I'm solidly team #BrunItBack and I think I personally and we collectively underrate how big a change inserting Brunson, the Hart Foundation & removing Rose & Fournier from the rotation actually were. Brunson is the GUY and everything points to a gamble on internal improvement. I'm with it.