Happy Father’s Day Jon! Thank you for the great offseason content. The next few weeks will most likely define the ultimate grade given to this front office.
Thanks.Belated Fathers Day wishes to all The KFS Crew and community.I break talent. I remember Sunday afternoon games with my Dad.
Wouldn't It be great if the NBA world allowed us more opportunities to share our love of the game with the little ones we love. I'd learn about the greats of the past sitting with my Dad. I also learned to SEE THE GAME not just the highlights.
The Four Corners of talent Acquisition: Talent, Fit, Cap, Health~Durability. They can't be separated if you are building a long-term, stable project.
The thing I keep coming back to with Randle is that I think we can all agree that when he went out and OG and Hart were our starting forwards, the defense seemed to tick up a notch. And, perhaps surprisingly, we didn’t lose much on the offensive end. That vexes me with respect to extending Randle well into his 30s on his next contract. Of course, there’s also the consideration that OG seems likely to miss 20-30 games a year with a weird injury or three. Having Hart is surely a luxury in that he can admirably fill in as a starter for either spot. The front office has its work cut out for them this offseason and beyond. The name I keep coming back to is Sexton. And I also wonder if they’ll circle back on Bruce Brown. My big prediction for this offseason? It won’t feel like we’re “done” or “all in” by the end of it. I just don’t see the moves out there for Leon and co to go all-in on.
I know everyone is hammering this home right now, but the Knicks - beyond resigning OG and Hartenstein - need to pounce on the non-star upgrade that shakes loose. Two candidates I continue to return to: Curoso and Sexton.
For all the worry warts here’s some maybe good news: The Ringer projects lumbering Zach Eddy to the Thunder, which would seem to make IHart a bit superfluous. Of course, these mocks are just that. But some potential interesting news
Well Ken is still unconvinced. The part I struggle most with is the terrible precedent set. Y his performance with Trae (why would it be better with Brunson) and starting him and yes I believe we would have to but it would not reduce Devos overall minutes. But it would add high quality non Brunson point guard minutes. I am not saying he is a star and one of the most attractive things about him is he is not paid like a star at $25 million this year and will not cost a star price (if the rumors from last year are true, it would be two good first rounders). This is not Donovan or Booker and won’t cost what they do.
Yes, the defense has suffered. But he is still bigger than devo (wing Span is 6’10 compared to 6’6 even if he is only listed at an inch taller. But on Atlanta, everyone’s D was terrible. Even Okongwu , who would be on my list for back up Center and Power forward if Atlanta drafts a center, had a negative defensive rating.
I am by no means wed to Dejounte. And I still think there is a decent chance they keep him and trade Trae. But my problem with the analysis was the “star” part of it. And the overrated because of his past part of it. That is not what his salary or price tag say. To me the question is whether he would be a better fit given the cost than Sexton or Clarkson or Caruso or Brogdon or any of the other non- star PG/SG combos we have talked about.
I guess my pushback is 2-fold: I have serious questions about how much worse the starting five would get without a dangerous shooter, and the notion that this team, with the culture they've developed, would function seamlessly if there was a guy in the first five who was only there because of his ego and everyone knows it...that just doesn't sit well with me. The other thing is about what it would take to get him; I don't think he's coming nearly as cheap as you think.
My main point is that I don’t think the analysis was framed correctly. It was about Dejounte living off his former star rep. You are all in on Sexton ( who I like very much) but he gives us the two short guards problem when he is paired with Brunson. He has never been considered the defender Murray was, at least once. And he won’t come cheap either. My point is that Murray ought to be considered against folks like
Sexton, Brogdon, and all the folks of that tier. It did not feel like that kind of comparison was being made. I could be convinced that
Sexton was the better choice or that Caruso or Brogdon was the better choice but that is the analysis I would like to see.
By the way, I do not buy the three point shooter argument when we are healthy. Dejounte is a pretty good three point shooter and we are only talking about the starting unit and 15 minutes..when healthy we have plenty of three point shooters including Brunson who can be a little more off ball if Dejounte is on the court with him, OG , who is quite good and the sometimes hot Randle. I have other issues with Dejounte being in the first unit ( and the team) but not the of the theee point shooting kind.
I understand the case for Sexton and I am a fan of that move, though I don’t know that the price of any Ainge deal is going to be less than Murray. But I don’t get Caruso. I like the player but the problem with the non-Brunson minutes is the lack of an offensive engine on that unit. When McBride steps in for Brunson, that is a sizable defensive improvement (maybe not as much as Caruso would offer) but the offense bogs down. Clyde often talks about defense leading to offense but the inverse is also true; bad offense leads to bad defense.
Anyway, I don’t see how Caruso improves the second unit defensively and I also don’t see him getting important minutes with the first unit. When we are closing games and it is a choice among devo, Josh and Caruso for the fifth spot, that is exactly the order in which I think it goes in Thibs head.
So I see Sexton because he is an engine. I continue to see Murray ( but if the attitude issues are real-maybe not). And I see other engine types as the kind that I would want (Anfernee, for example).
Very fair point on Caruso. They'd be counting on his other benefits outweighing the drawbacks. That said, he might be the best pound for pound defender in the league. I can promise you he'd get a ton of minutes and would improve the defense of any unit he's on. And I still might take Sexton
there's a massive, massive difference between the shooting gravity DDV presents vs what Murray (or for that matter Brunson) brings.
As for the false premise, if Murray views himself as a star - and he 100% does and will act like it in a locker room that is devoid of egos - I'm not sure what difference it makes whether he's a star or not. Sexton is also a much better defender. I'd take either him or Caruso 10x out of 10 over Murray any day of the week.
Good points. If he doesn't cost a lot and DiVo's time remains the same with the exception of him coming off the bench, then making a trade for Murray could be worth it and who's to say we have to hold onto him. Why not turn him into continuous soup in a later deal for someone they really want?....such as Booker or Bridges if either were to ever become available. I feel like this was discussed.
If iHart is back, and we are doing a deal with the Hawks, I would prefer trading Bogey for DeAndre Hunter. Some concerns with the knee but he is 6'8" big wing and shot 38% from 3 last year. Would be giving up a little shooting vs Bogey but the defense would be an upgrade.
Happy Fathers Day to all of the Fathers related to the family of KFS. Thank you Jonathan for this mornings “shout”.
I received double the pleasure of being your parent. Love You Too!
:)
Happy Father’s Day Jon! Thank you for the great offseason content. The next few weeks will most likely define the ultimate grade given to this front office.
Thank you! They’re sitting with a solid B+ right now, let’s see if they can get to an A
Thanks.Belated Fathers Day wishes to all The KFS Crew and community.I break talent. I remember Sunday afternoon games with my Dad.
Wouldn't It be great if the NBA world allowed us more opportunities to share our love of the game with the little ones we love. I'd learn about the greats of the past sitting with my Dad. I also learned to SEE THE GAME not just the highlights.
The Four Corners of talent Acquisition: Talent, Fit, Cap, Health~Durability. They can't be separated if you are building a long-term, stable project.
Damn...those 4 quads are about the most sensible thing I've heard in a while.
Thanks for the kind words Jonathan
Wow, Donte hit a lot of 3s last year!!! He even broke the team record for 3s in a season. Who would have ever seen that coming 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
🍻
hardy har har
The thing I keep coming back to with Randle is that I think we can all agree that when he went out and OG and Hart were our starting forwards, the defense seemed to tick up a notch. And, perhaps surprisingly, we didn’t lose much on the offensive end. That vexes me with respect to extending Randle well into his 30s on his next contract. Of course, there’s also the consideration that OG seems likely to miss 20-30 games a year with a weird injury or three. Having Hart is surely a luxury in that he can admirably fill in as a starter for either spot. The front office has its work cut out for them this offseason and beyond. The name I keep coming back to is Sexton. And I also wonder if they’ll circle back on Bruce Brown. My big prediction for this offseason? It won’t feel like we’re “done” or “all in” by the end of it. I just don’t see the moves out there for Leon and co to go all-in on.
Man, I'd be all for them going after Sexton.
I know everyone is hammering this home right now, but the Knicks - beyond resigning OG and Hartenstein - need to pounce on the non-star upgrade that shakes loose. Two candidates I continue to return to: Curoso and Sexton.
Looking forward to the new pod with Jeremy!
For all the worry warts here’s some maybe good news: The Ringer projects lumbering Zach Eddy to the Thunder, which would seem to make IHart a bit superfluous. Of course, these mocks are just that. But some potential interesting news
Well Ken is still unconvinced. The part I struggle most with is the terrible precedent set. Y his performance with Trae (why would it be better with Brunson) and starting him and yes I believe we would have to but it would not reduce Devos overall minutes. But it would add high quality non Brunson point guard minutes. I am not saying he is a star and one of the most attractive things about him is he is not paid like a star at $25 million this year and will not cost a star price (if the rumors from last year are true, it would be two good first rounders). This is not Donovan or Booker and won’t cost what they do.
Yes, the defense has suffered. But he is still bigger than devo (wing Span is 6’10 compared to 6’6 even if he is only listed at an inch taller. But on Atlanta, everyone’s D was terrible. Even Okongwu , who would be on my list for back up Center and Power forward if Atlanta drafts a center, had a negative defensive rating.
I am by no means wed to Dejounte. And I still think there is a decent chance they keep him and trade Trae. But my problem with the analysis was the “star” part of it. And the overrated because of his past part of it. That is not what his salary or price tag say. To me the question is whether he would be a better fit given the cost than Sexton or Clarkson or Caruso or Brogdon or any of the other non- star PG/SG combos we have talked about.
I guess my pushback is 2-fold: I have serious questions about how much worse the starting five would get without a dangerous shooter, and the notion that this team, with the culture they've developed, would function seamlessly if there was a guy in the first five who was only there because of his ego and everyone knows it...that just doesn't sit well with me. The other thing is about what it would take to get him; I don't think he's coming nearly as cheap as you think.
My main point is that I don’t think the analysis was framed correctly. It was about Dejounte living off his former star rep. You are all in on Sexton ( who I like very much) but he gives us the two short guards problem when he is paired with Brunson. He has never been considered the defender Murray was, at least once. And he won’t come cheap either. My point is that Murray ought to be considered against folks like
Sexton, Brogdon, and all the folks of that tier. It did not feel like that kind of comparison was being made. I could be convinced that
Sexton was the better choice or that Caruso or Brogdon was the better choice but that is the analysis I would like to see.
By the way, I do not buy the three point shooter argument when we are healthy. Dejounte is a pretty good three point shooter and we are only talking about the starting unit and 15 minutes..when healthy we have plenty of three point shooters including Brunson who can be a little more off ball if Dejounte is on the court with him, OG , who is quite good and the sometimes hot Randle. I have other issues with Dejounte being in the first unit ( and the team) but not the of the theee point shooting kind.
I understand the case for Sexton and I am a fan of that move, though I don’t know that the price of any Ainge deal is going to be less than Murray. But I don’t get Caruso. I like the player but the problem with the non-Brunson minutes is the lack of an offensive engine on that unit. When McBride steps in for Brunson, that is a sizable defensive improvement (maybe not as much as Caruso would offer) but the offense bogs down. Clyde often talks about defense leading to offense but the inverse is also true; bad offense leads to bad defense.
Anyway, I don’t see how Caruso improves the second unit defensively and I also don’t see him getting important minutes with the first unit. When we are closing games and it is a choice among devo, Josh and Caruso for the fifth spot, that is exactly the order in which I think it goes in Thibs head.
So I see Sexton because he is an engine. I continue to see Murray ( but if the attitude issues are real-maybe not). And I see other engine types as the kind that I would want (Anfernee, for example).
Very fair point on Caruso. They'd be counting on his other benefits outweighing the drawbacks. That said, he might be the best pound for pound defender in the league. I can promise you he'd get a ton of minutes and would improve the defense of any unit he's on. And I still might take Sexton
there's a massive, massive difference between the shooting gravity DDV presents vs what Murray (or for that matter Brunson) brings.
As for the false premise, if Murray views himself as a star - and he 100% does and will act like it in a locker room that is devoid of egos - I'm not sure what difference it makes whether he's a star or not. Sexton is also a much better defender. I'd take either him or Caruso 10x out of 10 over Murray any day of the week.
Good points. If he doesn't cost a lot and DiVo's time remains the same with the exception of him coming off the bench, then making a trade for Murray could be worth it and who's to say we have to hold onto him. Why not turn him into continuous soup in a later deal for someone they really want?....such as Booker or Bridges if either were to ever become available. I feel like this was discussed.
If iHart is back, and we are doing a deal with the Hawks, I would prefer trading Bogey for DeAndre Hunter. Some concerns with the knee but he is 6'8" big wing and shot 38% from 3 last year. Would be giving up a little shooting vs Bogey but the defense would be an upgrade.
I don't think they'd go that route but I wouldn't completely hate it. I do think they could get a similar or better player on the midlevel though