I find it very disappointing to be a Knick fan today. Their coach from the 1990’s still insists that he will start an older player with serious deficiencies over their own seemingly Crown Prince (if all of the Mitchell rumors are to be believed); it seems Randle is ensconced as the starting power forward and will get his 33-35 minutes a night and DRose is back and in good shape, so we know he will play 20-23 minutes a game.
This all adds up to Rose’s short term vision of winning enough games to at least squeeze into the play-in at a cost of not playing Obi, Cam, Grimes and IQ as much as we all had hoped. Also part of the plan seems to resist developing their own young players as either their own future or as trade assets;
Also, the Rose regime seems intent on both hoarding draft picks but not using draft picks (in three seasons at the helm during the draft, they have traded down twice and traded out once).
Tom’s analysis makes me both higher on RJ and higher / more optimistic about the team overall - and even more down on Thibs as an offensive coach. I can imagine a lineup that really maximizes RJ’s greatest skills: IQ or DRose at the 1, Evan at the 3, post-all-star-break Obi at the 5, and Hart at the 5. This feels like it would spread the floor for RJ. Watching Tom’s film, it feels as though it’s a miracle RJ got anything done at the rim at all. For not the first time, one wishes Thibs played a style that didn’t waste so much of his team’s offensive talent, I think.
Did anyone catch that Thibs apparently compared Hartenstein to Joakim Noah yesterday? I saw the reporters ask Hart about it, but not Thibs saying it. If Thibs sees Hart as a Noah type, I think there's a chance we see Hart closing games, if not pushing Mitch for the starting job. I just think the elements of playmaking, making actual passing reads from the high-post, potential shooting range out to 3pt are things that could really open up the offense, especially given how much RJ, Brunson, and Randle (if he's playing right) rely on being able to drive to/work in the paint. Hart's passing and potential spacing would open up so much vs Mitch just being camped there at all times.
Would be really curious to see if Thibs tries out this lineup:
I share everyone's frustration. I didn't want to trade for Mitchell and am glad the deal fell through. But, it's beyond crazy that Grimes was held out of the deal as an untouchable if Thibs isn't willing to start him.
Thibs says you win or you learn. Last year, he didn't win and it appears he hasn't learned.
If he repeats last year by starting Fournier and Randle and playing Rose major minutes off the bench until he is inevitably injured, he has to win 42 games at a minimum. Or, he should be fired at the end of the year.
I think the Fournier statement by Thibs is just a smokescreen. He almost has to say that, otherwise he suppresses the trade value on Fournier, while at the same time unnecessarily building the pressure on Grimes. They start with Memphis, and then they have 3 cupcakes, but after that it’s Bucks, Cavs, Hawks, Sixers, Celtics, TWolves, Nets.
So by the time the Pistons come back to the Garden for the second time November 11, we should know who we are. If we have anything less than 5 wins at that point, I think it’ll be a long season, and I don’t think they can get to that level or better with Fournier getting starters minutes.
For the Knicks to win under Thibs, it all has to be predicated around the defense, and I don’t see them doing that with Fournier on the floor. I’ll concede that maybe there is a way to win with this team trying to score 115 a night, but even if that is true, and I’m not certain, it’s not going to shake out that way with Thibs.
To me, the Knicks have historically always been at their best putting defense first anyway, and Thibs has always been a defensive oriented coach, which is why he was brought in here in the first place. So it seems to me to be awfully short sighted to then turn around and say you can’t expect modern players to want to play that way, and then go out and get Kemba Walker and Fournier, and expect to go up and down the floor and have it work.
Certainly, Grimes isn’t going to just be gifted the job, he has to win it. Another thing I’ll add is that I think Hartenstein was brought in with the expectation that at some point they will move Randle, because if Obi is starting you can’t play him with Mitch Robinson because their games are too similar.
I find it very disappointing to be a Knick fan today. Their coach from the 1990’s still insists that he will start an older player with serious deficiencies over their own seemingly Crown Prince (if all of the Mitchell rumors are to be believed); it seems Randle is ensconced as the starting power forward and will get his 33-35 minutes a night and DRose is back and in good shape, so we know he will play 20-23 minutes a game.
This all adds up to Rose’s short term vision of winning enough games to at least squeeze into the play-in at a cost of not playing Obi, Cam, Grimes and IQ as much as we all had hoped. Also part of the plan seems to resist developing their own young players as either their own future or as trade assets;
Also, the Rose regime seems intent on both hoarding draft picks but not using draft picks (in three seasons at the helm during the draft, they have traded down twice and traded out once).
In other words, rinse, wash repeat.
Tom’s analysis makes me both higher on RJ and higher / more optimistic about the team overall - and even more down on Thibs as an offensive coach. I can imagine a lineup that really maximizes RJ’s greatest skills: IQ or DRose at the 1, Evan at the 3, post-all-star-break Obi at the 5, and Hart at the 5. This feels like it would spread the floor for RJ. Watching Tom’s film, it feels as though it’s a miracle RJ got anything done at the rim at all. For not the first time, one wishes Thibs played a style that didn’t waste so much of his team’s offensive talent, I think.
Did anyone catch that Thibs apparently compared Hartenstein to Joakim Noah yesterday? I saw the reporters ask Hart about it, but not Thibs saying it. If Thibs sees Hart as a Noah type, I think there's a chance we see Hart closing games, if not pushing Mitch for the starting job. I just think the elements of playmaking, making actual passing reads from the high-post, potential shooting range out to 3pt are things that could really open up the offense, especially given how much RJ, Brunson, and Randle (if he's playing right) rely on being able to drive to/work in the paint. Hart's passing and potential spacing would open up so much vs Mitch just being camped there at all times.
Would be really curious to see if Thibs tries out this lineup:
Brunson
Grimes
RJ
Randle
Hartenstein
I share everyone's frustration. I didn't want to trade for Mitchell and am glad the deal fell through. But, it's beyond crazy that Grimes was held out of the deal as an untouchable if Thibs isn't willing to start him.
Thibs says you win or you learn. Last year, he didn't win and it appears he hasn't learned.
If he repeats last year by starting Fournier and Randle and playing Rose major minutes off the bench until he is inevitably injured, he has to win 42 games at a minimum. Or, he should be fired at the end of the year.
I think the Fournier statement by Thibs is just a smokescreen. He almost has to say that, otherwise he suppresses the trade value on Fournier, while at the same time unnecessarily building the pressure on Grimes. They start with Memphis, and then they have 3 cupcakes, but after that it’s Bucks, Cavs, Hawks, Sixers, Celtics, TWolves, Nets.
So by the time the Pistons come back to the Garden for the second time November 11, we should know who we are. If we have anything less than 5 wins at that point, I think it’ll be a long season, and I don’t think they can get to that level or better with Fournier getting starters minutes.
For the Knicks to win under Thibs, it all has to be predicated around the defense, and I don’t see them doing that with Fournier on the floor. I’ll concede that maybe there is a way to win with this team trying to score 115 a night, but even if that is true, and I’m not certain, it’s not going to shake out that way with Thibs.
To me, the Knicks have historically always been at their best putting defense first anyway, and Thibs has always been a defensive oriented coach, which is why he was brought in here in the first place. So it seems to me to be awfully short sighted to then turn around and say you can’t expect modern players to want to play that way, and then go out and get Kemba Walker and Fournier, and expect to go up and down the floor and have it work.
Certainly, Grimes isn’t going to just be gifted the job, he has to win it. Another thing I’ll add is that I think Hartenstein was brought in with the expectation that at some point they will move Randle, because if Obi is starting you can’t play him with Mitch Robinson because their games are too similar.
You're getting me pumped!