I’ve been going back and forth on the Embiid thing all year... I have a hard time seeing Philly trading him to NY no matter what happens. I agree the Knicks should go for it if the chance arises... just not sure I see it.
Also, Miami is embarrassing Boston. I hope this makes Knicks fans feel a little better. I’ve seen the takes online that the Knicks would’ve beaten Boston if only they didn’t blow it against Miami. And maybe they could have beaten Boston. But I just need to say that I think it’s somewhat delusional to think that this Knicks team - very young and in its first real playoffs run - was going to knock off a Miami team that has been in the conference finals 3 out of 4 years and now looks headed to its second finals in that span. The Heat are not a true eighth seed, they were the top seed last season and dealt with injuries all year. Additionally the Tyler Herro injury may have inadvertently unlocked another level of what that team’s true identity is and should be on defense. Spo may be the best coach of his generation. Jimmy may be the most unappreciated superstar in the league. (Speaking of Joel Embiid - imagine how he feels about THAT decision. Woof!)
There is no shame in losing to the Heat. Though I do think there is delusion in thinking we should’ve beaten them, especially with all the (Bam-induced) injuries we were dealing with. IQ before his injury looked shook against this Heat squad. Grimes had one of the great playoffs moments in Knicks history that I have seen since 1993, but it helps overshadow that even though his mere presence helped the spacing, his performance on offense was uneven at best and he was coming off his own injury (to his shooting shoulder, no less). Randle and Mitch looked limited by injury. (Though I know Randle has his growing playoffs baggage - if you look at Embiid’s playoffs struggles, maybe part of it is that big men who rely on iso spot up shooting are going to struggle against playoff defenses loaded up to stop that very thing? Embiid is certainly better than Randle, but they play a lot more similar games on offense than you might think at first blush.)
The reason I say there is delusion, and potentially dangerous delusion, in thinking we SHOULD have beaten Miami is thinking we are farther ahead than we actually are. We had a great run. But getting to the conference finals and potentially finals this far ahead of schedule I think would have had massively bad team building implications and massively bad expectation building as well. I hope Rose and co take sober stock of where we actually are and don’t agree with the hot take that we should’ve beaten Miami. You lose or you learn - we are at the point of our development arc where those lessons come in the playoffs. Rose and Co have some dangerous decisions to make this summer. I hope they aren’t fueled by the woulda coulda shoulda thoughts about Miami. To me that will lead us again to the same types of mistakes we made with the Fournier and Kemba moves. Anyway. Sorry just needed to get that off my chest.
Agree with most of what you say here . Still believe if Randle played as hard as Brunson we beat Miami . But Randle is 2 all over the place to expect that that’s why he has to go . FO has found their guy in Brunson and need to build around him . Everything they do this summer has to be geared towards him , Randle is to destabilizing and Thibs cannot coach him properly so if you are not going to get rid of coach they must get rid of Randle . Miami is doing this with Butler/ Bam and a cast of role players that know their roles and execute them to perfection.
Agree with that. I think the big take away from the playoffs was that Randle’s style of offense doesn’t work - but RJ’s might? Randle would have to lean into being a facilitator- but we’ve seen his mental processing speed isn’t fast enough against good defenses. (Side note: I wonder if processing speed is Randle’s big issue with defense as well? Like he’s just reading the play a second or two too slow - far too slow for the highest levels of basketball.)
Brunson is the guy to build around, but RJ is maybe a key piece of that. And lord if we had a chance at Bam I would go for him over Embiid - though I know Riley would never let him go. It is astounding to me that Phil drafted Frank Ntilikina ahead of Bam - it doesn’t even feel like those two play the same sport.
Yep. I hope they realize that and try to move him. It will hurt very much if RJ and/or IQ are the guys they move. (In addition to it hurting, I think it would be the wrong move. Randle needs to go.)
Despite flashes of greatness here and there, he's injury prone, and a walking example that the "process" is NOT fit to be trusted,moreso it just plain doesn't work.
I think Embiid is a pipe dream . . .like Lebron was all those many years ago. I’d rather deal with the highly likely not the highly unlikely.
Actually, Jonathan, I thought your newsletter might have been about how maybe we should look at our second round loss completely differently?
While Miami is heading for a sweep against the Celtics, the Heat needed the refs, and our injuries to beat the Knicks in six. And the Knicks were a hair’s breadth away from forcing a 7th game in MSG.
Doesn’t mean Rose & Co should change their off season strategy. The Knicks still need a good shooting swing, and a good shooting big but it sure looks like the Knicks will be the team no one will look forward to playing in 2023-24.
Even with Embiid, whose current greatness and potential all-time greatness you just spotlighted, and James Harden Superstar, the Sixers went only as far in the playoffs as the Knicks did, and retrospectively the Sixers’ performance will look inferior to ours because they won’t be able to say they lost to the conference champ (If the Heat sweep the Celtics and/or win the whole thing, then further to my point). Looking further back. Embiid has never made it past the second round. Additionally, by leaving, if it comes to that, wouldn’t Harden, who has yet to win a chip in his otherwise illustrious career, be signaling that he believes a core of him alone is more likely to help him check that box than is a core of him and Embiid. What do we know that the Beard doesn’t?
Thank you for breaking down the potency of the pipe in the Joel Embid pipe dream. I legit didn’t know most of this and it makes a ton of sense to not hope or expect it.
Could still happen but the hill is more uphill than imagined
Looks like while I've been technically wrong about saying to anyone who will listen that no one trades the MVP reading this has Cemented for me that no one trades the reigning & first time MVP.
thanks jon. now that that is out of the way, who do you think is the best realistic option for the knicks to add this summer? and what would that look like? my dream is a trade for a 3 and d 4 and say goodbye to Ju.
hmmm, maybe we start with this question, does a legit 3 and d 4 make us a better contender for the conference finals than with Ju? I think it might, if you agree, who could we trade for that is a legit 3 and d4 and who would we have to give up to get him? does OG fit the bill? it is a shame that Obi seems to be unable to focus on rebounding and defense because he is a good enough shooter and athelete to be a solid 3 and d 4.
Depends on who. If its OG Anunoby, i say no because he doesn't offer nearly enough offensive gravity (to say nothing of his inconsistent outside shot). Paul George? Now you're talking!
Hal Greer and Dolph Schayes played their entire careers for the 76ers franchise, beginning when they were in Syracuse. Both are top 50 players of all time and probably the best 76ers who played their entire careers with them. Neither were as good as the 76ers you listed, but for now I'd say they're the best HOF players who started and finished as 76ers.
Greer in particular is such an underrated player in NBA history. top 10 guy for the better part of a decade. Most fans probably don't even know he existed.
I’ve been going back and forth on the Embiid thing all year... I have a hard time seeing Philly trading him to NY no matter what happens. I agree the Knicks should go for it if the chance arises... just not sure I see it.
Also, Miami is embarrassing Boston. I hope this makes Knicks fans feel a little better. I’ve seen the takes online that the Knicks would’ve beaten Boston if only they didn’t blow it against Miami. And maybe they could have beaten Boston. But I just need to say that I think it’s somewhat delusional to think that this Knicks team - very young and in its first real playoffs run - was going to knock off a Miami team that has been in the conference finals 3 out of 4 years and now looks headed to its second finals in that span. The Heat are not a true eighth seed, they were the top seed last season and dealt with injuries all year. Additionally the Tyler Herro injury may have inadvertently unlocked another level of what that team’s true identity is and should be on defense. Spo may be the best coach of his generation. Jimmy may be the most unappreciated superstar in the league. (Speaking of Joel Embiid - imagine how he feels about THAT decision. Woof!)
There is no shame in losing to the Heat. Though I do think there is delusion in thinking we should’ve beaten them, especially with all the (Bam-induced) injuries we were dealing with. IQ before his injury looked shook against this Heat squad. Grimes had one of the great playoffs moments in Knicks history that I have seen since 1993, but it helps overshadow that even though his mere presence helped the spacing, his performance on offense was uneven at best and he was coming off his own injury (to his shooting shoulder, no less). Randle and Mitch looked limited by injury. (Though I know Randle has his growing playoffs baggage - if you look at Embiid’s playoffs struggles, maybe part of it is that big men who rely on iso spot up shooting are going to struggle against playoff defenses loaded up to stop that very thing? Embiid is certainly better than Randle, but they play a lot more similar games on offense than you might think at first blush.)
The reason I say there is delusion, and potentially dangerous delusion, in thinking we SHOULD have beaten Miami is thinking we are farther ahead than we actually are. We had a great run. But getting to the conference finals and potentially finals this far ahead of schedule I think would have had massively bad team building implications and massively bad expectation building as well. I hope Rose and co take sober stock of where we actually are and don’t agree with the hot take that we should’ve beaten Miami. You lose or you learn - we are at the point of our development arc where those lessons come in the playoffs. Rose and Co have some dangerous decisions to make this summer. I hope they aren’t fueled by the woulda coulda shoulda thoughts about Miami. To me that will lead us again to the same types of mistakes we made with the Fournier and Kemba moves. Anyway. Sorry just needed to get that off my chest.
Agree with most of what you say here . Still believe if Randle played as hard as Brunson we beat Miami . But Randle is 2 all over the place to expect that that’s why he has to go . FO has found their guy in Brunson and need to build around him . Everything they do this summer has to be geared towards him , Randle is to destabilizing and Thibs cannot coach him properly so if you are not going to get rid of coach they must get rid of Randle . Miami is doing this with Butler/ Bam and a cast of role players that know their roles and execute them to perfection.
Agree with that. I think the big take away from the playoffs was that Randle’s style of offense doesn’t work - but RJ’s might? Randle would have to lean into being a facilitator- but we’ve seen his mental processing speed isn’t fast enough against good defenses. (Side note: I wonder if processing speed is Randle’s big issue with defense as well? Like he’s just reading the play a second or two too slow - far too slow for the highest levels of basketball.)
Brunson is the guy to build around, but RJ is maybe a key piece of that. And lord if we had a chance at Bam I would go for him over Embiid - though I know Riley would never let him go. It is astounding to me that Phil drafted Frank Ntilikina ahead of Bam - it doesn’t even feel like those two play the same sport.
Definitely is an above the neck issue whatever it is . Randle is a nice player and seems like he is a great guy but relationship has run its course .
Yep. I hope they realize that and try to move him. It will hurt very much if RJ and/or IQ are the guys they move. (In addition to it hurting, I think it would be the wrong move. Randle needs to go.)
Big N-O, on Jo-El from me.
Despite flashes of greatness here and there, he's injury prone, and a walking example that the "process" is NOT fit to be trusted,moreso it just plain doesn't work.
I think Embiid is a pipe dream . . .like Lebron was all those many years ago. I’d rather deal with the highly likely not the highly unlikely.
Actually, Jonathan, I thought your newsletter might have been about how maybe we should look at our second round loss completely differently?
While Miami is heading for a sweep against the Celtics, the Heat needed the refs, and our injuries to beat the Knicks in six. And the Knicks were a hair’s breadth away from forcing a 7th game in MSG.
Doesn’t mean Rose & Co should change their off season strategy. The Knicks still need a good shooting swing, and a good shooting big but it sure looks like the Knicks will be the team no one will look forward to playing in 2023-24.
tomorrow's newsletter :)
Even with Embiid, whose current greatness and potential all-time greatness you just spotlighted, and James Harden Superstar, the Sixers went only as far in the playoffs as the Knicks did, and retrospectively the Sixers’ performance will look inferior to ours because they won’t be able to say they lost to the conference champ (If the Heat sweep the Celtics and/or win the whole thing, then further to my point). Looking further back. Embiid has never made it past the second round. Additionally, by leaving, if it comes to that, wouldn’t Harden, who has yet to win a chip in his otherwise illustrious career, be signaling that he believes a core of him alone is more likely to help him check that box than is a core of him and Embiid. What do we know that the Beard doesn’t?
Thank you for breaking down the potency of the pipe in the Joel Embid pipe dream. I legit didn’t know most of this and it makes a ton of sense to not hope or expect it.
Could still happen but the hill is more uphill than imagined
Thanks Qasim!
Looks like while I've been technically wrong about saying to anyone who will listen that no one trades the MVP reading this has Cemented for me that no one trades the reigning & first time MVP.
#BrunItBack
thanks jon. now that that is out of the way, who do you think is the best realistic option for the knicks to add this summer? and what would that look like? my dream is a trade for a 3 and d 4 and say goodbye to Ju.
Easier said than done Rich! Agree on that being the ideal target, not sure there's an obvious realistic candidate.
hmmm, maybe we start with this question, does a legit 3 and d 4 make us a better contender for the conference finals than with Ju? I think it might, if you agree, who could we trade for that is a legit 3 and d4 and who would we have to give up to get him? does OG fit the bill? it is a shame that Obi seems to be unable to focus on rebounding and defense because he is a good enough shooter and athelete to be a solid 3 and d 4.
Depends on who. If its OG Anunoby, i say no because he doesn't offer nearly enough offensive gravity (to say nothing of his inconsistent outside shot). Paul George? Now you're talking!
Can we vote? I agree with Rich W!
No thanks.
Hal Greer and Dolph Schayes played their entire careers for the 76ers franchise, beginning when they were in Syracuse. Both are top 50 players of all time and probably the best 76ers who played their entire careers with them. Neither were as good as the 76ers you listed, but for now I'd say they're the best HOF players who started and finished as 76ers.
Greer in particular is such an underrated player in NBA history. top 10 guy for the better part of a decade. Most fans probably don't even know he existed.