As always JM, this article was a brilliant analysis of where the Knicks and Randle currently stand and an article that is both entertaining and well-written. I’m one of those “trade-Randle-asap” guys but I don’t think it will happen, not am I sure I’m still rooting for a deal to happen any longer . With the coming severe cap restrictions, Randle is a perfect guy for the new Adam Silver NBA. He’s a two-time all-star, two time all NBA player who has an extremely low contract (within the confines of the NBA not the real world).
For the above reason, I believe he has significant trade value but that value goes both ways. Thus, what is the solution if the Knicks are going to stick with Randle?
Most likely, their best shot is to add another star, (duh!). But most likely a star with a lowercase “S” who can accept not being the lead dog. Or even accept being “dog” #2. However, it would need to be a star with a quiet confidence and likely it will be someone the Knicks need to gamble on. There are a lot of potential candidates. Candidates with a blemish. Maybe it’s KAT with his obscene contract and poor defense. Or maybe it’s LaVine with his obscene contract and injury history? Maybe it’s Bradley Beal with his obscene contract. Notice an obscene-contract theme? Makes Randle even more valuable in that context, eh?
Jalen Brown is the dream but even if the Celtics were willing to pay him and give up the astronomical assets it would take, it’s highly unlikely the Celtics would deal him to the Knicks.
I can’t wait for July 1st as experts are predicting a significant amount of trade action due to the aforementioned new cap.
Unfortunately I agree with you Jon... this is the reality of the situation. Do I want to trade Randle, absolutely! Primarily for his attitude and his lack of effort at times.
I said before that I view the Knicks thru the lens of my kid’s eyes and that younger generation. You may say that’s stupid Hamdy, who cares what they think! But these are the next wave of Knicks fans. They will be buying the jerseys, buying the tickets, etc... so from a business model perspective we shld care, right? All 3 of my kids hate Randle. But they love Brunson, IQ, QG, etc... of course they love Obi but are old enough to recognize that he stinks and has to go haha!
I will cheer for him as a true fan should do and hope for his success, but no one can deny it’s complicated...
It's not stupid at all, Hamdy. Not even a bit. Frankly I don't think anyone really loves Randle. Does it mean they trade him? No, but if opportunity knocks...
Great piece and analysis on JR. After a couple of weeks I still want Randle gone but see how it may not be beneficial without trading for one of those 50 plus guys that won’t move the needle. My hope is Thibs makes further improvement late in his coaching career and finally holds Randle accountable and Brunson in year 2 feels more comfortable and speaks out more .
Agreed Jon. I miss the analysis we get on KFS (and Clyde, Hahn and even Wally!) when watching Heat/Celtics. I can hear Clyde yelling he turned his back to the inbounds passer! Cardinal sin!
Knicks will listen to offers, but Randal stays. If he's an issue in the locker room the Knicks do an incredible job of keeping a lid on it. Randal was much better this year than last. Controlling one's emotions and channeling them properly isn't flipping a switch. It's a gradual process and hopefully each season is an improvement over the prior one.
The front office is risk adverse and probably won’t move Randle but they should. He a terrible 4th quarter player and his playoff resume is getting extensive enough where it’s hard to say it’s sample size. Can a guy with Julius’ short comings be insulated so you get the good w/o the bad? Sure but you can’t play him 35 every night, you can’t let him finish every night. I doubt the Knick are turning back from “foundational” Julius so maybe they could but I doubt they will.
They are fortunate that they have an incredible clutch player that will mask some of Randle shortcomings. That player unfortunately might have more game 6 like heart breaks coming
I'd understand the inquiry of trading Randle, but the reality is that his production would be very difficult to replace.
I believe trading for a star will come down to 1-2 of the young guys being dealt, and it will be a tough pill for either hive to swallow (RJ, IQ, OBI, MITCH)
What I think not everyone has not acknowledged yet is that running it back with the same team is just as much of a risk as taking a swing for a star player.
Really appreciate and enjoyed this analysis. Having said that, I think the Knicks will be open to breaking up their Big three, the better question is are they willing to trade Barrett or Grimes. I think Barrett makes the most sense. He really impressed me this series, but like Randle, and Brunson, he is left handed, and ball dominant. The heat series felt like the universe telling the Knick brass and fans that we need spacing and shooting. Barrett doesn’t shoot well enough, doesn’t have good enough handle, and needs the ball in similar spots to Randle. It’s clogging up the offense.
I would prefer we trade Randle because of his attitude, but I think Barrett may end up being the one to move. Grimes is a close second, but I don’t see that happening when his defense and outside shooting is better than Barrett’s, plus he has a way better contract for now
The frustration for me with Julius in these playoffs is less about his offensive production. He was coming off injury and was matched against two of the best defensive bigs in the game in Mobley and Bam. And he did have his moments before the re-injury (his first half in game 5 against the Cavs was excellent - he was bullying Mobley in the paint). But unfortunately the enduring image etched in my brain is his turnovers, followed by his throwing his arms up in frustration, while loafing down the court as Brunson defends a three on one. It’s that part I just don’t get and don’t see changing. It’s unfortunate because as has been said repeatedly, fans will give a player grace for poor shooting games.
Julius Randle is like the lord on the first 6 days. He’s a “CREATOR”. He’s not just catching the ball and scoring. He’s taking 47 jab steps throwing in an eye if newt. He has gravity. You can’t replace that
Interesting choice of name drop in George Carlin. Backstory? I’m so over Julius and watching the Knicks would be so much more joyful without him. I expect they’ll have a tough time moving him and will try to add another high character/high effort guy like they did with JHart to try to snap Ju out of his self imposed malaise and make his lack of effort so glaring that he has to step up or be completely embarrassed by his teammates. I don’t think it will work.
The Knicks HAVE to explore trading Julius and leave no stone unturned. But, they can’t just give him a way for spare parts and conditional picks (unless they KNOW that some of those assets are used to bring in THE guy).
As much as I want Randle gone from our Knicks, the Knicks are not trying to take a step back. I like the idea of Julius joining Harden in Houston. I used to look at Boston as a potential spot in a larger deal for Brown, but my goodness was Brown awful while being up for a lot of money.
Finding a home for Julius, while upgrading is a very tall task. But, that is why Rose and co. make the big bucks. Would love to keep RJ (think he can improve on his efficiency) and dump Randle, but it is going to be a very interesting summer.
We weren't that far away this year. Let's run it back and add a piece or two. Use the player options on IQ or Obi unless they will be included in trades, let Rose walk and pick up a piece or two that would help us in the playoffs if possible. I think the reality is that we have two all-star level guys and whether we like it or not, that's a reality and not one we've been face with since....Melo and Amare(?). I like what we have. We should see how our younger guys develop over the summer (Grimes, RJ, IQ, Obi) and pick up someone to fill Rose's place who can do something like what Josh Hart does but perhaps a little more quick on the 3. Just my opinion.
I have no idea what to do with Randle. In addition to what you outlined about his inconsistent effort (particularly on the defensive end), there's also the spacing issue that isn't going to go away with the current starting 5. To me it could come down to a trade that results in pieces that fit together better rather than a talent upgrade.
One thing I do know is that I have no interest in Beal's contract. I think he's going to become a neutral or negative asset going forward at that number.
You might be right on Beal. Comes down to health. If he's healthy, I believe he's a guy you want, even at his number. Then again, the health risk is not baked into the price tag.
By the way, I want Jalen Brown but would not trade Randle straight up for him ( among other things, we have better SGs than power forwards). And can you imagine what fans would say if Randle had 8 turnovers, and shot 1-9 from 3 in a game 7. Brown’s stats for the entire series were none too impressive.
As always JM, this article was a brilliant analysis of where the Knicks and Randle currently stand and an article that is both entertaining and well-written. I’m one of those “trade-Randle-asap” guys but I don’t think it will happen, not am I sure I’m still rooting for a deal to happen any longer . With the coming severe cap restrictions, Randle is a perfect guy for the new Adam Silver NBA. He’s a two-time all-star, two time all NBA player who has an extremely low contract (within the confines of the NBA not the real world).
For the above reason, I believe he has significant trade value but that value goes both ways. Thus, what is the solution if the Knicks are going to stick with Randle?
Most likely, their best shot is to add another star, (duh!). But most likely a star with a lowercase “S” who can accept not being the lead dog. Or even accept being “dog” #2. However, it would need to be a star with a quiet confidence and likely it will be someone the Knicks need to gamble on. There are a lot of potential candidates. Candidates with a blemish. Maybe it’s KAT with his obscene contract and poor defense. Or maybe it’s LaVine with his obscene contract and injury history? Maybe it’s Bradley Beal with his obscene contract. Notice an obscene-contract theme? Makes Randle even more valuable in that context, eh?
Jalen Brown is the dream but even if the Celtics were willing to pay him and give up the astronomical assets it would take, it’s highly unlikely the Celtics would deal him to the Knicks.
I can’t wait for July 1st as experts are predicting a significant amount of trade action due to the aforementioned new cap.
Eff the Heat and Eff Pat Riley. Go Nuggets!
Unfortunately I agree with you Jon... this is the reality of the situation. Do I want to trade Randle, absolutely! Primarily for his attitude and his lack of effort at times.
I said before that I view the Knicks thru the lens of my kid’s eyes and that younger generation. You may say that’s stupid Hamdy, who cares what they think! But these are the next wave of Knicks fans. They will be buying the jerseys, buying the tickets, etc... so from a business model perspective we shld care, right? All 3 of my kids hate Randle. But they love Brunson, IQ, QG, etc... of course they love Obi but are old enough to recognize that he stinks and has to go haha!
I will cheer for him as a true fan should do and hope for his success, but no one can deny it’s complicated...
It's not stupid at all, Hamdy. Not even a bit. Frankly I don't think anyone really loves Randle. Does it mean they trade him? No, but if opportunity knocks...
Great piece and analysis on JR. After a couple of weeks I still want Randle gone but see how it may not be beneficial without trading for one of those 50 plus guys that won’t move the needle. My hope is Thibs makes further improvement late in his coaching career and finally holds Randle accountable and Brunson in year 2 feels more comfortable and speaks out more .
Agreed Jon. I miss the analysis we get on KFS (and Clyde, Hahn and even Wally!) when watching Heat/Celtics. I can hear Clyde yelling he turned his back to the inbounds passer! Cardinal sin!
Knicks will listen to offers, but Randal stays. If he's an issue in the locker room the Knicks do an incredible job of keeping a lid on it. Randal was much better this year than last. Controlling one's emotions and channeling them properly isn't flipping a switch. It's a gradual process and hopefully each season is an improvement over the prior one.
The front office is risk adverse and probably won’t move Randle but they should. He a terrible 4th quarter player and his playoff resume is getting extensive enough where it’s hard to say it’s sample size. Can a guy with Julius’ short comings be insulated so you get the good w/o the bad? Sure but you can’t play him 35 every night, you can’t let him finish every night. I doubt the Knick are turning back from “foundational” Julius so maybe they could but I doubt they will.
They are fortunate that they have an incredible clutch player that will mask some of Randle shortcomings. That player unfortunately might have more game 6 like heart breaks coming
I'd understand the inquiry of trading Randle, but the reality is that his production would be very difficult to replace.
I believe trading for a star will come down to 1-2 of the young guys being dealt, and it will be a tough pill for either hive to swallow (RJ, IQ, OBI, MITCH)
What I think not everyone has not acknowledged yet is that running it back with the same team is just as much of a risk as taking a swing for a star player.
Just play the games. Hard. Smart. To win. Julius can... and it's up to the Knicks to help him.
It's called coaching and development. JUST DO IT.
The perfect should never be the enemy of the good.
If his team likes him, and his coach likes him, and the front office likes him then, Randle's alright with me.
Really appreciate and enjoyed this analysis. Having said that, I think the Knicks will be open to breaking up their Big three, the better question is are they willing to trade Barrett or Grimes. I think Barrett makes the most sense. He really impressed me this series, but like Randle, and Brunson, he is left handed, and ball dominant. The heat series felt like the universe telling the Knick brass and fans that we need spacing and shooting. Barrett doesn’t shoot well enough, doesn’t have good enough handle, and needs the ball in similar spots to Randle. It’s clogging up the offense.
I would prefer we trade Randle because of his attitude, but I think Barrett may end up being the one to move. Grimes is a close second, but I don’t see that happening when his defense and outside shooting is better than Barrett’s, plus he has a way better contract for now
FWIW, I think RJ is a far safer bet to get dealt this summer than Grimes for a variety of reasons (shooting, contract, defense).
The frustration for me with Julius in these playoffs is less about his offensive production. He was coming off injury and was matched against two of the best defensive bigs in the game in Mobley and Bam. And he did have his moments before the re-injury (his first half in game 5 against the Cavs was excellent - he was bullying Mobley in the paint). But unfortunately the enduring image etched in my brain is his turnovers, followed by his throwing his arms up in frustration, while loafing down the court as Brunson defends a three on one. It’s that part I just don’t get and don’t see changing. It’s unfortunate because as has been said repeatedly, fans will give a player grace for poor shooting games.
Julius Randle is like the lord on the first 6 days. He’s a “CREATOR”. He’s not just catching the ball and scoring. He’s taking 47 jab steps throwing in an eye if newt. He has gravity. You can’t replace that
Interesting choice of name drop in George Carlin. Backstory? I’m so over Julius and watching the Knicks would be so much more joyful without him. I expect they’ll have a tough time moving him and will try to add another high character/high effort guy like they did with JHart to try to snap Ju out of his self imposed malaise and make his lack of effort so glaring that he has to step up or be completely embarrassed by his teammates. I don’t think it will work.
My favorite standup comedian :)
He’s a good one. What’s the average age or core demographic of the KFS audience? Just curious.
No idea actually! I bet some of them had to Google Carlin after that though :)
The Knicks HAVE to explore trading Julius and leave no stone unturned. But, they can’t just give him a way for spare parts and conditional picks (unless they KNOW that some of those assets are used to bring in THE guy).
As much as I want Randle gone from our Knicks, the Knicks are not trying to take a step back. I like the idea of Julius joining Harden in Houston. I used to look at Boston as a potential spot in a larger deal for Brown, but my goodness was Brown awful while being up for a lot of money.
Finding a home for Julius, while upgrading is a very tall task. But, that is why Rose and co. make the big bucks. Would love to keep RJ (think he can improve on his efficiency) and dump Randle, but it is going to be a very interesting summer.
We weren't that far away this year. Let's run it back and add a piece or two. Use the player options on IQ or Obi unless they will be included in trades, let Rose walk and pick up a piece or two that would help us in the playoffs if possible. I think the reality is that we have two all-star level guys and whether we like it or not, that's a reality and not one we've been face with since....Melo and Amare(?). I like what we have. We should see how our younger guys develop over the summer (Grimes, RJ, IQ, Obi) and pick up someone to fill Rose's place who can do something like what Josh Hart does but perhaps a little more quick on the 3. Just my opinion.
I have no idea what to do with Randle. In addition to what you outlined about his inconsistent effort (particularly on the defensive end), there's also the spacing issue that isn't going to go away with the current starting 5. To me it could come down to a trade that results in pieces that fit together better rather than a talent upgrade.
One thing I do know is that I have no interest in Beal's contract. I think he's going to become a neutral or negative asset going forward at that number.
You might be right on Beal. Comes down to health. If he's healthy, I believe he's a guy you want, even at his number. Then again, the health risk is not baked into the price tag.
By the way, I want Jalen Brown but would not trade Randle straight up for him ( among other things, we have better SGs than power forwards). And can you imagine what fans would say if Randle had 8 turnovers, and shot 1-9 from 3 in a game 7. Brown’s stats for the entire series were none too impressive.