Great piece this morning and I agree no need for negativity. Just was reading Sixers post game comments and saw what Rivers did to motivate Harden and coax a good game out of Harden . Rivers gets a lot of heat but though that was great. Also reading what Tucker said about Embid you just won MVP and being better . Seriously who is calling out Randle on this team ? ! A leader needs to step up , Brunson is great but he is a more lead by example and hold himself accountable type guy . I agree this is a young team but they have an opportunity to do something THIS year nothing is guaranteed in sports for the future. Randle is oldest rotation player and all star he needs to be better and lead . LGK
To draw a baseball analogy, when a team isn’t hitting it makes it seem like the entire team is lethargic. Randle aside - and we desperately need him to get engaged on both ends tonight - I’m not so sure the effort was that poor on Saturday as much as it being the continuation of poor shooting, often on good looks.
I agree with the sentiment of returning Grimes to the starting lineup and I would limit the minutes that Hart and RJ play together. With Quickley likely out, that may mean playing Grimes 30 to 35 minutes. I thought I was crazy because it hasn’t been mentioned but I had recalled Grimes doing a good job on Butler during the regular season. And sure enough, I looked it up and the first game the teams played in February (a Knicks win at MSG before the Hart trade), Butler had only 10 points on 5-13 shooting. Hopefully Grimes finds his stroke, but in any event, his presence creates space and he helps on defense and the boards (remember the stretch run of game 2).
I can be as cynical as they come with this franchise but still believe in this team. It’s 2-1, not 3-0. Win tonight and the narrative is flipped. Let’s go Knicks.
I think they are tired and injured and it's hard to be an 'upstart' team especially in a series against a well-coached team playing with legit all-stars with lots of experience. If this is where we go out, we can still say we far exceeded expectations. There's no shame in that for me. We got three bum ankles and a bum shoulder on this team right now. I hope they come out firing bullets tonight but if they don't, I feel like this team has given me more exciting moments and awesome wins this year than any team I can recall since the Ewing days.
I have a lot of things to say. I hope they are mostly rational, but cannot promise that they all will be!
1. At the end of the day and regardless of what the outcome is, the lessons that the Knicks are learning in this series will be invaluable moving forward. The Heat are one of the most playoff experienced and hardened teams of the last decade (from the FO to the coaching staff to the players). What is currently going on may be painful in the short-term for us fans, but hopefully the takeaways will have a long-lasting positive impact on our players in terms of what is required to make a deep playoff run from a mentality, attitude, and approach POV.
2. I had been talking about this a lot in the lead up to G3 to the point where some ppl in the substack chat must have thought I was crazy, but I was truly fixated on who Jimmy was going to be matched up with to start the game. Over the first 2 games there had been really only 1 constant on the Knicks side of the equation: Rj Barrett having great 1st halfs, which subsequently kept the Knicks afloat and allowed his teammates who had started off slowly, to get going later on in the game with no real detrimental effect. Thus when I saw Jimmy on Rj to start the game I knew that Spo had made the adjustment to try and stop the Rj 1st half trend and was forcing other Knicks to pick up the slack and get the team out of 1st gear. As a result, it completely neutralized Rj and basically forced him into being a 3pt shooter since he stood no chance driving against Jimmy. And, since the Heat will gladly give Rj all the 3s that he wants to take, it allowed Jimmy to play off of him more and muck up some of the other actions that were occurring away from Rj and off ball. And what happened? With Rj neutralized, the Knicks couldn’t get going to start the game (or at all lol). If the Knicks want to win G4, someone is going to have to come through and pick up the slack.
3. It felt like someone on the Heat had told Bam that he had played soft those first 2 games because holy crap… he was a beast.
4. I want to talk a lot about Randle, but at the same time I don’t. I’ll keep it short and simple: I have never seen a player be so volatile in terms of game-to-game effort/impact. Would it surprise me if he dropped 40 points next game and carried the Knicks to victory? No. Would it surprise me if he replicated his G3 performance? Also no. Insane fluctuation.
I don’t think the house money concept should be tossed away, even if we lose to the Heat. The Heat were a wide open Jimmy Butler pull up 3 away from going to the Finals for the second time in four seasons last year. They have championship caliber role players in Lowry and Love, who have given IQ and Obi fits. We are still an extremely young team as well. We won last series because RJ and Mitch played fantastic ball and helped overcome injuries to Randle and Grimes. This series, RJ and Mitch are matched up with Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo- both of whom would make All NBA every year if they played enough games. The Heat are coached by the best coach in the league, possibly the best coach of his generation.
Grimes lost his starting job due to injury. He hasn’t looked right or comfortable since returning. He had a shoulder injury to his shooting shoulder. While the Heat do have to honor his threat as a shooter, I’m not really convinced Spo and Butler would continue to honor his threat if he played more and continued to shoot so poorly. IQ and Grimes have really struggled this series and it has hurt us. IQ has looked SHOOK. I’m not surprised Thibs has turned to Hart to start, to contain Butler and because our starting lineup with Hart was the best five man offensive unit in the playoffs (at least ahead of game 3).
I dunno. I think the narrative out there that this is a Thibs failure is deeply unfair and it’s being made by the same people who were making it earlier in the season until the best stretch of Knicks basketball in twenty years made them clam up. Now we have a disappointing game and they’re back. Randle has missed a game this series, looked great the next, and looked awful in game 3. Going forward we may not want to build around him, seeing how his game seems to falter in the playoffs. But letting that mar this whole season and the job Thibs has done feels like an over reaction.
I said when the Heat beat the Bucks, that I was worried playing the Heat could be more heartbreaking- because of our history with them and because beating them felt POSSIBLE. Possible doesn’t mean guaranteed. Brunson and Randle are dealing with injury. RJ, Mitch, IQ, Grimes, and Obi are in their first extended playoffs. The Knicks are a very young team, playing a very veteran and experienced team. Spo has been to the finals five times. Butler and Adebayo have been once and almost again last year. Lowry and Love have been important players on championship teams - they can’t play 30 minutes anymore, but they can give you championship effort for a solid 15 and turn the momentum with huge plays. There shouldn’t be any shame in losing to this team and it shouldn’t change our outlook. It used to be accepted that young teams got better step by step and slowly learned from playoffs misery to come back stronger and better. Hell, that’s what Brunson did after a poor playoffs series his third year. I’m not sure why this is any different. We should be proud and we should cheer our guys on - they gave us more this season than anyone had a right to expect.
As always Jonathan, you nailed it. I had planned to write a long comment this morning but you said it all.
I’d only add the following:
1. It was embarrassing to be a Knick fan on Saturday. It was even more embarrassing because I thought we left this “lol Knicks” behind for good.
2. Randle has the very unusual ability to bring the entire team down to his depressing level when he is playing like he is depressed. How a man who has won just a handful of playoff games in his nine-year career can come out so listless for such a critical game, is beyond me. But it does remind once again that I have never enjoyed having him on our team.
3. Brunson is a revelation. He is a star. He gives his heart and soul every minute he is on the floor. Unfortunately, the Knicks are a team with one star (Brunson), a bunch of role players (some very good role players, but still) and one Randle. How many all-star games have Miami players played in vs how many Knicks have. Miami 16, NYK 2. We need another all-star.
I hope the Knicks can find a way to steal one tonight however after Saturday’s performance, I am getting the plastic bag season in my head rather than another level in the NBA playoffs.
the narrative looked positive after the Cavs series bc the team won its last game. Until they win a title that won’t be the case at the end of any season and people will see structural flaws in the roster and/or have issues with a “system” they see as having a ceiling below championship level.
I rewatched and rewatched last game. I’m actually somewhat optimistic about today’s game. After being punched in the face several times, we mounted efforts and pushed back, but just couldn’t get that one shot to get us under 10 which would have changed momentum. Yes Miami was more aggressive, but a foul is a foul and referees should have sent us to the line a lot more. We got out scored at the line 28-16. We shot 31-91, they shot 35 of 90. They were marginally less bad than us from the field. We outscored them from three - we made 8 threes, they made 7. The final score looks much worse than the underlying metrics. This wasn’t the type of futility we saw against the Hawks a few years ago. There is reason to believe we can pull it out tonight.
This year has been so enjoyable. It’s hard to believe how much the vibes changed.I think that if we had beat the Cavs and lost in four to the Bucks I wouldn’t have felt bad because we weren’t supposed to beat Giannis.
This has sucked because we were unexpectedly favored, had home court, and had a path to the finals if we drew the Celtics and are making curious coaching decisions.
Last game felt like a repeat of the 2021-22 Thibs / Randle dysfunction. In addition to the Josh Hart becoming 2023 Alec Burks, I would add the following:
1) Randle has had one good playoff game and 2 good quarters in his career. The track record is not great. When the level of play/ effort is putrid to the point Hubie Brown (the ultimate positive outlook coach) is killing him, Thibs doesn’t have to play him so much.
2) Spo knows what the substitution patterns are. Try something different. For example, if he starts Grimes, then bring Hart in for Mitch as the first substitution and play small for a couple of minutes.
3) if we aren’t playing well for a stretch, don’t call a timeout just to run the same group out there to play harder. Make a change.
4) Let Brunson guard Gabe Vincent instead of having to run him through all the picks to cover Max Strus.
I hope if Randle isn't engaged, Thibs pulls him....u cant keep him out there half assing it.....I would rather go down with lesser players leaving it all on the floor....And make the damn FT's 67% is awful.....
Great piece this morning and I agree no need for negativity. Just was reading Sixers post game comments and saw what Rivers did to motivate Harden and coax a good game out of Harden . Rivers gets a lot of heat but though that was great. Also reading what Tucker said about Embid you just won MVP and being better . Seriously who is calling out Randle on this team ? ! A leader needs to step up , Brunson is great but he is a more lead by example and hold himself accountable type guy . I agree this is a young team but they have an opportunity to do something THIS year nothing is guaranteed in sports for the future. Randle is oldest rotation player and all star he needs to be better and lead . LGK
To draw a baseball analogy, when a team isn’t hitting it makes it seem like the entire team is lethargic. Randle aside - and we desperately need him to get engaged on both ends tonight - I’m not so sure the effort was that poor on Saturday as much as it being the continuation of poor shooting, often on good looks.
I agree with the sentiment of returning Grimes to the starting lineup and I would limit the minutes that Hart and RJ play together. With Quickley likely out, that may mean playing Grimes 30 to 35 minutes. I thought I was crazy because it hasn’t been mentioned but I had recalled Grimes doing a good job on Butler during the regular season. And sure enough, I looked it up and the first game the teams played in February (a Knicks win at MSG before the Hart trade), Butler had only 10 points on 5-13 shooting. Hopefully Grimes finds his stroke, but in any event, his presence creates space and he helps on defense and the boards (remember the stretch run of game 2).
I can be as cynical as they come with this franchise but still believe in this team. It’s 2-1, not 3-0. Win tonight and the narrative is flipped. Let’s go Knicks.
Randle played like shit and as much as I sports love the guy it sucks he has these games. I don't think it'll be two in a row.
I'll be in the building tonight and do my best to bring home a W.
I think they are tired and injured and it's hard to be an 'upstart' team especially in a series against a well-coached team playing with legit all-stars with lots of experience. If this is where we go out, we can still say we far exceeded expectations. There's no shame in that for me. We got three bum ankles and a bum shoulder on this team right now. I hope they come out firing bullets tonight but if they don't, I feel like this team has given me more exciting moments and awesome wins this year than any team I can recall since the Ewing days.
I have a lot of things to say. I hope they are mostly rational, but cannot promise that they all will be!
1. At the end of the day and regardless of what the outcome is, the lessons that the Knicks are learning in this series will be invaluable moving forward. The Heat are one of the most playoff experienced and hardened teams of the last decade (from the FO to the coaching staff to the players). What is currently going on may be painful in the short-term for us fans, but hopefully the takeaways will have a long-lasting positive impact on our players in terms of what is required to make a deep playoff run from a mentality, attitude, and approach POV.
2. I had been talking about this a lot in the lead up to G3 to the point where some ppl in the substack chat must have thought I was crazy, but I was truly fixated on who Jimmy was going to be matched up with to start the game. Over the first 2 games there had been really only 1 constant on the Knicks side of the equation: Rj Barrett having great 1st halfs, which subsequently kept the Knicks afloat and allowed his teammates who had started off slowly, to get going later on in the game with no real detrimental effect. Thus when I saw Jimmy on Rj to start the game I knew that Spo had made the adjustment to try and stop the Rj 1st half trend and was forcing other Knicks to pick up the slack and get the team out of 1st gear. As a result, it completely neutralized Rj and basically forced him into being a 3pt shooter since he stood no chance driving against Jimmy. And, since the Heat will gladly give Rj all the 3s that he wants to take, it allowed Jimmy to play off of him more and muck up some of the other actions that were occurring away from Rj and off ball. And what happened? With Rj neutralized, the Knicks couldn’t get going to start the game (or at all lol). If the Knicks want to win G4, someone is going to have to come through and pick up the slack.
3. It felt like someone on the Heat had told Bam that he had played soft those first 2 games because holy crap… he was a beast.
4. I want to talk a lot about Randle, but at the same time I don’t. I’ll keep it short and simple: I have never seen a player be so volatile in terms of game-to-game effort/impact. Would it surprise me if he dropped 40 points next game and carried the Knicks to victory? No. Would it surprise me if he replicated his G3 performance? Also no. Insane fluctuation.
I don’t think the house money concept should be tossed away, even if we lose to the Heat. The Heat were a wide open Jimmy Butler pull up 3 away from going to the Finals for the second time in four seasons last year. They have championship caliber role players in Lowry and Love, who have given IQ and Obi fits. We are still an extremely young team as well. We won last series because RJ and Mitch played fantastic ball and helped overcome injuries to Randle and Grimes. This series, RJ and Mitch are matched up with Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo- both of whom would make All NBA every year if they played enough games. The Heat are coached by the best coach in the league, possibly the best coach of his generation.
Grimes lost his starting job due to injury. He hasn’t looked right or comfortable since returning. He had a shoulder injury to his shooting shoulder. While the Heat do have to honor his threat as a shooter, I’m not really convinced Spo and Butler would continue to honor his threat if he played more and continued to shoot so poorly. IQ and Grimes have really struggled this series and it has hurt us. IQ has looked SHOOK. I’m not surprised Thibs has turned to Hart to start, to contain Butler and because our starting lineup with Hart was the best five man offensive unit in the playoffs (at least ahead of game 3).
I dunno. I think the narrative out there that this is a Thibs failure is deeply unfair and it’s being made by the same people who were making it earlier in the season until the best stretch of Knicks basketball in twenty years made them clam up. Now we have a disappointing game and they’re back. Randle has missed a game this series, looked great the next, and looked awful in game 3. Going forward we may not want to build around him, seeing how his game seems to falter in the playoffs. But letting that mar this whole season and the job Thibs has done feels like an over reaction.
I said when the Heat beat the Bucks, that I was worried playing the Heat could be more heartbreaking- because of our history with them and because beating them felt POSSIBLE. Possible doesn’t mean guaranteed. Brunson and Randle are dealing with injury. RJ, Mitch, IQ, Grimes, and Obi are in their first extended playoffs. The Knicks are a very young team, playing a very veteran and experienced team. Spo has been to the finals five times. Butler and Adebayo have been once and almost again last year. Lowry and Love have been important players on championship teams - they can’t play 30 minutes anymore, but they can give you championship effort for a solid 15 and turn the momentum with huge plays. There shouldn’t be any shame in losing to this team and it shouldn’t change our outlook. It used to be accepted that young teams got better step by step and slowly learned from playoffs misery to come back stronger and better. Hell, that’s what Brunson did after a poor playoffs series his third year. I’m not sure why this is any different. We should be proud and we should cheer our guys on - they gave us more this season than anyone had a right to expect.
As always Jonathan, you nailed it. I had planned to write a long comment this morning but you said it all.
I’d only add the following:
1. It was embarrassing to be a Knick fan on Saturday. It was even more embarrassing because I thought we left this “lol Knicks” behind for good.
2. Randle has the very unusual ability to bring the entire team down to his depressing level when he is playing like he is depressed. How a man who has won just a handful of playoff games in his nine-year career can come out so listless for such a critical game, is beyond me. But it does remind once again that I have never enjoyed having him on our team.
3. Brunson is a revelation. He is a star. He gives his heart and soul every minute he is on the floor. Unfortunately, the Knicks are a team with one star (Brunson), a bunch of role players (some very good role players, but still) and one Randle. How many all-star games have Miami players played in vs how many Knicks have. Miami 16, NYK 2. We need another all-star.
I hope the Knicks can find a way to steal one tonight however after Saturday’s performance, I am getting the plastic bag season in my head rather than another level in the NBA playoffs.
Is there any magic left in this team?
the narrative looked positive after the Cavs series bc the team won its last game. Until they win a title that won’t be the case at the end of any season and people will see structural flaws in the roster and/or have issues with a “system” they see as having a ceiling below championship level.
I rewatched and rewatched last game. I’m actually somewhat optimistic about today’s game. After being punched in the face several times, we mounted efforts and pushed back, but just couldn’t get that one shot to get us under 10 which would have changed momentum. Yes Miami was more aggressive, but a foul is a foul and referees should have sent us to the line a lot more. We got out scored at the line 28-16. We shot 31-91, they shot 35 of 90. They were marginally less bad than us from the field. We outscored them from three - we made 8 threes, they made 7. The final score looks much worse than the underlying metrics. This wasn’t the type of futility we saw against the Hawks a few years ago. There is reason to believe we can pull it out tonight.
Excellent summary.
This year has been so enjoyable. It’s hard to believe how much the vibes changed.I think that if we had beat the Cavs and lost in four to the Bucks I wouldn’t have felt bad because we weren’t supposed to beat Giannis.
This has sucked because we were unexpectedly favored, had home court, and had a path to the finals if we drew the Celtics and are making curious coaching decisions.
Last game felt like a repeat of the 2021-22 Thibs / Randle dysfunction. In addition to the Josh Hart becoming 2023 Alec Burks, I would add the following:
1) Randle has had one good playoff game and 2 good quarters in his career. The track record is not great. When the level of play/ effort is putrid to the point Hubie Brown (the ultimate positive outlook coach) is killing him, Thibs doesn’t have to play him so much.
2) Spo knows what the substitution patterns are. Try something different. For example, if he starts Grimes, then bring Hart in for Mitch as the first substitution and play small for a couple of minutes.
3) if we aren’t playing well for a stretch, don’t call a timeout just to run the same group out there to play harder. Make a change.
4) Let Brunson guard Gabe Vincent instead of having to run him through all the picks to cover Max Strus.
Fire Julius Randle into the sun.
Please.
Because Rose and Thibs will ride his jockstrap til the bitter losing end.
I truly despise his half assed, walking down the court, terrible shot hoisting, selfish play.
Trade him for dirty old stretched out gym socks.
Ok. That is all.
I hope if Randle isn't engaged, Thibs pulls him....u cant keep him out there half assing it.....I would rather go down with lesser players leaving it all on the floor....And make the damn FT's 67% is awful.....
Grimes' supposed business manager is criticizing his usage according to the Post. Not sure if it really is his camp, but.... https://nypost.com/2023/05/07/quentin-grimes-apparent-manager-criticizes-usage-by-knicks/