A recent report indicates Isaiah Hartenstein's market may be higher than the Knicks are allowed to pay. Is there another team that might break the bank?
I absolutely would love to see I-Hart back with the team but I personally view I-Hart as additive to the success potential of the team but not critical to the team's success (unlike say JB / OG / J Hart / DiVo - as much as I want to see JR back I don't view him as critical as those 4 but he is important and even more so if we lose I-Hart). Part of the appeal of I-Hart (like many of the players on the Knicks) has been the "production per dollar spent" as he vastly outplayed his last contract.
I-Hart is a very talented passer, a great rim protector and rebounder, good switch defender in space and has a good (not great) offensive game (more so since he started being more aggressive looking for that short floater he's shown the 2nd half of the year). All that said, for Thibs defensive / offensive schemes (from what I see anyway - I'm not an X's and O's guy like that) he needs 48 mins of rim protection, strong rebounders to finish defensive possessions and maximize opportunities offensively and a center who can capably execute DHOs / screens at the top of the key then dive to the glass. He has strong rebounders in Mitch, JR and J Hart, part of the 48 mins of rim protection covered with Mitch and Mitch has gotten better (still not the greatest..LOL) at setting screens. You don't need (although it's great to have) a center with all of I-Hart's skills for this team to be successful and make a run at the chip.
So while I guess I'm in the camp of pay I-Hart up to the full Bird offer I'm not of the belief that it's a disaster if we are not able to resign him like some of these opinion articles (and I'd bet the farm that NOBODY would consider offering I-Hart $100 Ms - I call bullshit on that and the "anonymous cap strategists and league executives" line). Watching the moves this FO has made over the past 4 years - I have no doubt that they they will not overpay for I-Hart and already have a plan in place for a player that will fit in Thibs system backing up Mitch if they can't resign him.
Is there any stipulation against giving iHart a two year deal for 34 mill with the second year being a PO? Just think that's the closest to "best of both worlds" we can get to, if that's allowed.
OKC scares me. Definitely think they will be willing to overpay and give him the "Bruce Brown contract", so they'll attach assets to him for a future deal down the line. Presti is always a guy that is looking at the next five moves ahead, and I don't think that assumption should be "re-sign everyone". Not so fun fact: iHart's wife is from Dallas, so it's an easy car ride away....Type of consideration people with a new born think about.
Also think the Magic should be seen as a greater threat. They were runner-ups last time around, and the contracts you mention seem like the type of guys they wouldn't mind dealing to teams with cap space.
We were SO much better with him on the court than with him off, and when OG and Randle were healthy, he played an integral role in our rise to elite status. We cannot let his scoring average or counting stats overshadow his incredibly impactful play. He needs to be back - pay him the most we can, and hope it’s enough.
(Then trade Mitch and find a new appropriately-priced backup, preferably one that can stretch the floor while still offering rim protection.)
The team I am most nervous about is OKC, however I can’t see them giving out $20+ mil per year for a backup center. It feels like the move for them is to find a taker for Giddey, and add a power forward that fits next to Chet to help out on the boards and having Dort and Williams on the wings. I know there has been a lot of talk about them and Claxton, but just feels like a waste to use Chet as a stretch 4 next to a traditional center.
Orlando makes some sense too, but that team needs shooting more than anything else. I’d think they’re much more likely to use their cap space on a guy like Malik Monk rather than another non shooter.
Love the analysis. Losing IHart would be a disaster as we'd have no way to find a starting center. I think the Thunder are a bigger threat than you suggest, particularly if they offer a shorter deal with a higher AAV allowing Hartenstein to re-enter free agency AND allowing themselves to avoid paying him when their guys extensions kick in.
Can the Knicks sign iHart for one year and then the next year sign him for as much as necessary to retain him? Or does he need to sign a two-year contract to match any amount. IHart is a huge piece of their dominance on the offensive board’s; pick and roll with Jalen Brunson; and his little floater was a weapon. He also proved pretty durable particularly in relation to Robinson.
They can do one year, but there's very little chance a player who hasn't had a big payday risks the possibility of injury with a 4-year deal on the table.
tough part about this is 1 year deals are typically prove it deals, and Iharts already proved it. So for him to accept it would be to take the financial risk of injury upon himself for the sake of the team. While Brunson may lead the charge in that aspect by taking an extension this summer instead of a max next summer, it's a lot to ask of a guy who just solidified himself as a capable starter in this league
Assuming the Knicks offer Isaiah their best deal possible, he'd be wise to stay. He's valued and will get playing time. He likes Thibs. He's best buds with Mitch. His game is suited to the Knick's preferred style of play. He and his family are comfortable in metro NYC-his wife's a professional model, Germany & Oregon [if his Mom's still there are almost equidistant. Wealthy Euros like Manhattan. The key question is: who's his agent? An agent may steer him towards their highest commission and not IHart's greatest happiness.
When the Zen Master told Dolan that he didn't like the CAA operatives (Leon?) hanging around the team facilities, his request was ignored; that was probably the beginning of the end of his ill fated tenure at the Knicks' helm.
What if Leon and Wes never really left and CAA and just executed a friendly takeover of MSG?
CAA all the way!
IHart's staying, huh? Makes me happy. He needs to watch some Walton tapes and the Knicks need to run some of those Dr. Jack Blazer actions with cutters getting fed by the center.
I would like to have iHart back even at price proposed. But I think we are overvaluing him because Randle / OG injuries gave him a role as an outlet for JB. Still he averaged less than 10 ppg / game and was the worst offensive starting center in the east playoffs. I’m skeptical someone is outbidding us on a 4 year deal but I could see okc offering him a big money 2 year deal ala Bruce Brown. He was shooting 3’s for the clippers on small volume and if he can develop an outside shot could be a very valuable player . If we can’t resign him, I would try to trade Mitch and Bogey for Ayton.
I can totally see Toronto looking at iHart. His game is tailored for how the Raptor coach likes the game to be played. They need length and a second true center.
Similar to the comment above, since the Knicks can negotiate with iHart at the end of the finals but before the draft, I expect them to have a firm understanding of iHart’s FA intentions before potentially selecting a player. If they end up drafting a big, that may signal the end of iHart’s time in NY. I don’t think this will je the case, but it’ll be an option for the front office.
Can iHart be sign/traded this summer if he decided to leave for OKC?
No, they can't really sign and trade because the "sign" part would still face the salary cap limitations the Knicks have. I guess the only way they could was if OKC offered the same as the Knicks are allowed but he preferred to go to OKC (which I would guess is unlikely).
I think they can still draft a big and resign IHart, while letting Precious go. They typically don't plan for rookies to get major rotation minutes their first year (McBride/Grimes). So having to compete with Sims is viable.
My gut tells me he's resigning here, but I've got a somewhat related question, Jon, for a future mailbag:
What impact, if any, will the new negotiation window have on the Knicks' free agents? As I understand it, they can now start officially negotiating right after the Finals end.
Will we see players in the league resign with their current teams before free agency opens? If so, do you see a world where either OG or Hart agree to a deal early?
I'm also curious to know if you think Brunson agreeing to an extension - and one that he could vastly outperform - would set the tone at all for our free agents. Is that fantasy land or could it actually help get these guys to resign at fair but not crazily inflated numbers?
Great analysis. As you and I have commented back-and-forth during the year, signing IHart is a must.
I absolutely would love to see I-Hart back with the team but I personally view I-Hart as additive to the success potential of the team but not critical to the team's success (unlike say JB / OG / J Hart / DiVo - as much as I want to see JR back I don't view him as critical as those 4 but he is important and even more so if we lose I-Hart). Part of the appeal of I-Hart (like many of the players on the Knicks) has been the "production per dollar spent" as he vastly outplayed his last contract.
I-Hart is a very talented passer, a great rim protector and rebounder, good switch defender in space and has a good (not great) offensive game (more so since he started being more aggressive looking for that short floater he's shown the 2nd half of the year). All that said, for Thibs defensive / offensive schemes (from what I see anyway - I'm not an X's and O's guy like that) he needs 48 mins of rim protection, strong rebounders to finish defensive possessions and maximize opportunities offensively and a center who can capably execute DHOs / screens at the top of the key then dive to the glass. He has strong rebounders in Mitch, JR and J Hart, part of the 48 mins of rim protection covered with Mitch and Mitch has gotten better (still not the greatest..LOL) at setting screens. You don't need (although it's great to have) a center with all of I-Hart's skills for this team to be successful and make a run at the chip.
So while I guess I'm in the camp of pay I-Hart up to the full Bird offer I'm not of the belief that it's a disaster if we are not able to resign him like some of these opinion articles (and I'd bet the farm that NOBODY would consider offering I-Hart $100 Ms - I call bullshit on that and the "anonymous cap strategists and league executives" line). Watching the moves this FO has made over the past 4 years - I have no doubt that they they will not overpay for I-Hart and already have a plan in place for a player that will fit in Thibs system backing up Mitch if they can't resign him.
This is really well thought out and I agree with you that losing him might not be the disaster we think it would be
Is there any stipulation against giving iHart a two year deal for 34 mill with the second year being a PO? Just think that's the closest to "best of both worlds" we can get to, if that's allowed.
OKC scares me. Definitely think they will be willing to overpay and give him the "Bruce Brown contract", so they'll attach assets to him for a future deal down the line. Presti is always a guy that is looking at the next five moves ahead, and I don't think that assumption should be "re-sign everyone". Not so fun fact: iHart's wife is from Dallas, so it's an easy car ride away....Type of consideration people with a new born think about.
Also think the Magic should be seen as a greater threat. They were runner-ups last time around, and the contracts you mention seem like the type of guys they wouldn't mind dealing to teams with cap space.
No, but that would be a little too risky on his part IMO.
I would rather have Carter than iHart
I don’t know much about advanced stats and understand they don’t tell the whole story, but I-Hart this year finished:
2nd in the entire league in Offensive Rating
5th in Defensive Rating
3rd in Defensive Box +\-
2nd in Offensive Reb %
8th in Steal %
(Stats from Basketball-reference.com.)
We were SO much better with him on the court than with him off, and when OG and Randle were healthy, he played an integral role in our rise to elite status. We cannot let his scoring average or counting stats overshadow his incredibly impactful play. He needs to be back - pay him the most we can, and hope it’s enough.
(Then trade Mitch and find a new appropriately-priced backup, preferably one that can stretch the floor while still offering rim protection.)
The team I am most nervous about is OKC, however I can’t see them giving out $20+ mil per year for a backup center. It feels like the move for them is to find a taker for Giddey, and add a power forward that fits next to Chet to help out on the boards and having Dort and Williams on the wings. I know there has been a lot of talk about them and Claxton, but just feels like a waste to use Chet as a stretch 4 next to a traditional center.
Orlando makes some sense too, but that team needs shooting more than anything else. I’d think they’re much more likely to use their cap space on a guy like Malik Monk rather than another non shooter.
Love the analysis. Losing IHart would be a disaster as we'd have no way to find a starting center. I think the Thunder are a bigger threat than you suggest, particularly if they offer a shorter deal with a higher AAV allowing Hartenstein to re-enter free agency AND allowing themselves to avoid paying him when their guys extensions kick in.
Can the Knicks sign iHart for one year and then the next year sign him for as much as necessary to retain him? Or does he need to sign a two-year contract to match any amount. IHart is a huge piece of their dominance on the offensive board’s; pick and roll with Jalen Brunson; and his little floater was a weapon. He also proved pretty durable particularly in relation to Robinson.
They can do one year, but there's very little chance a player who hasn't had a big payday risks the possibility of injury with a 4-year deal on the table.
tough part about this is 1 year deals are typically prove it deals, and Iharts already proved it. So for him to accept it would be to take the financial risk of injury upon himself for the sake of the team. While Brunson may lead the charge in that aspect by taking an extension this summer instead of a max next summer, it's a lot to ask of a guy who just solidified himself as a capable starter in this league
Just brainstorming backup options for Knicks' backup Center:
Already on the roster
- next man up Jericho Simms & draft a rookie
- stretch five Julius Randle
- positionless basketball virtuoso Josh Hart
Misc
- played 82 games 2023-2024 and would appreciate direct flights to Vilnius, Lithuania: Jonas Valančiūnas
- New York native: Mo Bamba
- maybe some upside left: James Wiseman
- also German when you think about it: Daniel Theis
Once a Knick Always a Knick
- Thib's fav: Taj Gibson
- now that you mention it he's available too: Nerlens Noel
- vegan recipe knower and renowned clubhouse guy: Deandre Jordan
Im guessing the other options are Precious + draft pick (Missi, Edey, Ware) or Goga Bitadze. Either way it's a huge step backwards from IHart.
Assuming the Knicks offer Isaiah their best deal possible, he'd be wise to stay. He's valued and will get playing time. He likes Thibs. He's best buds with Mitch. His game is suited to the Knick's preferred style of play. He and his family are comfortable in metro NYC-his wife's a professional model, Germany & Oregon [if his Mom's still there are almost equidistant. Wealthy Euros like Manhattan. The key question is: who's his agent? An agent may steer him towards their highest commission and not IHart's greatest happiness.
He's repped by CAA :)
When the Zen Master told Dolan that he didn't like the CAA operatives (Leon?) hanging around the team facilities, his request was ignored; that was probably the beginning of the end of his ill fated tenure at the Knicks' helm.
What if Leon and Wes never really left and CAA and just executed a friendly takeover of MSG?
CAA all the way!
IHart's staying, huh? Makes me happy. He needs to watch some Walton tapes and the Knicks need to run some of those Dr. Jack Blazer actions with cutters getting fed by the center.
Peace!
He's only 25...Walton's age when he won MVP!
I would like to have iHart back even at price proposed. But I think we are overvaluing him because Randle / OG injuries gave him a role as an outlet for JB. Still he averaged less than 10 ppg / game and was the worst offensive starting center in the east playoffs. I’m skeptical someone is outbidding us on a 4 year deal but I could see okc offering him a big money 2 year deal ala Bruce Brown. He was shooting 3’s for the clippers on small volume and if he can develop an outside shot could be a very valuable player . If we can’t resign him, I would try to trade Mitch and Bogey for Ayton.
I can totally see Toronto looking at iHart. His game is tailored for how the Raptor coach likes the game to be played. They need length and a second true center.
Yes, but what would they do with Poeltl? I'm not sure anyone wants that contract
Similar to the comment above, since the Knicks can negotiate with iHart at the end of the finals but before the draft, I expect them to have a firm understanding of iHart’s FA intentions before potentially selecting a player. If they end up drafting a big, that may signal the end of iHart’s time in NY. I don’t think this will je the case, but it’ll be an option for the front office.
Can iHart be sign/traded this summer if he decided to leave for OKC?
No, they can't really sign and trade because the "sign" part would still face the salary cap limitations the Knicks have. I guess the only way they could was if OKC offered the same as the Knicks are allowed but he preferred to go to OKC (which I would guess is unlikely).
I think they can still draft a big and resign IHart, while letting Precious go. They typically don't plan for rookies to get major rotation minutes their first year (McBride/Grimes). So having to compete with Sims is viable.
My gut tells me he's resigning here, but I've got a somewhat related question, Jon, for a future mailbag:
What impact, if any, will the new negotiation window have on the Knicks' free agents? As I understand it, they can now start officially negotiating right after the Finals end.
Will we see players in the league resign with their current teams before free agency opens? If so, do you see a world where either OG or Hart agree to a deal early?
I'm also curious to know if you think Brunson agreeing to an extension - and one that he could vastly outperform - would set the tone at all for our free agents. Is that fantasy land or could it actually help get these guys to resign at fair but not crazily inflated numbers?