I want to start off by saying that morally, seeing a player who we all love not get rewarded for his hard work and dedication to this franchise is disheartening. I love IQ and hope he’s here for a long time.
That said, I think it was the occurrence of a perfect storm of events that led us to this moment. It’s almost like Quickley’s leverage and bargaining position was too strong. He had so many bargaining chips to throw at the Knicks, which all justified why he should get what he was asking for. On the other side, the Knicks FO had a price point set that they wouldnt go over, and as we all know if the Knicks don’t think a deal is worth it for them at a particular time, they are not going to get bullied into doing it (based off their track record). So regardless of what IQ’s reps said or pointed to, trying to bring the Knicks up to their desired $ range, it was never going to happen. It just feels like this path was already set in stone. Ultimately, I am perfectly fine with what the FO decided to do with this situation. This is a results driven business after all and whatever they think is the right move to get them where they want to be is what they will do.
I am fine with what FO did here , calculated risk . I agree with your point with making IQ highest paid player on team cannot see that going over well in locker room . Feel that Maxey will have a better year and be more desirable for a team to extend an offer sheet for big dollars . Either way glad it’s done and just focus on season . If IQ wants a big bag just show out better than last year and he will benefit and team will benefit.
Great analysis, great writing. It's all here! ...I'd think some kind of IQ/Fournier/pick for Anunoby would make some sense at the deadline, but with the litigation not sure if they'll be talking.
I am not surprised at that IQ didn’t agree to an extension. He’s always had eyes on a starting PG gig and as much as I believe he loves NY, he knows it won’t be here. I’m certain he and his team was willing to entertain an extension offer that blew him away and paid him as if he was a starting PG, but would otherwise pass and hope for an offer from a team next year that had real intention to make him a starter and cornerstone (an offer the Knicks likely wouldn’t match or match and he’s in NY and wealthier than he would’ve been with a signed extension). This is a good bet for both sides. Thanks KFS for helping us all see beyond the obvious fan view (built on a ton of previous regime trauma) that this was a miss or contentious.
Oct 24, 2023·edited Oct 24, 2023Liked by Jonathan Macri
iQ views himself as a starter and wants to be paid like one. Can’t say I blame him with the money being thrown around the league these days. Enjoy him this season and see what happens.
I can understand and respect the front office’s position on Quickley but I do think sometimes there’s too much group think with Leon and company. It’s like they’re collaboratively deliberating towards the perfect trade scenario which is probably never happening. Other front offices have smart people also, including guys who are every bit as asset savvy as Brock Aller.
But on Quickley you really have to know what he wants before you can criticize the Knicks too much. Judging by his agent’s social media posts though, it doesn’t sound like the two sides were all that close yesterday.
The point you made in the second footnote is a great one. I never considered that angle - I’d imagine plenty of guys would have a problem with the 6th man making more than the best player.
The only way a deal was getting done was if the number was good for the Knicks. Randle took less, Brunson’s on a bargain - no way IQ was gonna get Vassell / Jaden money (both those contracts seem absurd btw).
Your point about his trade eligibility had he extended is also very relevant. I’d bet a meaningful amount of money that keeping him eligible for a star trade this year played a part in this. You said it yourself - the parity right now is insane, which means teams expecting to be good may very well suck this year. You never know who will become available, and IQ strengthens any potential offer.
Looking at the West it is striking how old a lot of the dominant players from the last decade have gotten. The 2015 playoffs will be nine years ago by the time this year’s playoffs arrive. Call me crazy, I don’t think Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, PG, CP3, or KD will even sniff a championship. They can still look the part if you squint enough, the numbers are still more or less there in our largely defense averse league... but I submit they have all lost the stamina to dominate for the three month gauntlet it takes to win the playoffs. Jokic is young, unstoppable, and in his prime. Nuggets may have a little championship hangover to start the season, but I see them steamrolling through the playoffs and only being challenged by the Bucks or Celtics. I think there is parity in the West, because there’s a lot of teams relying on OAS (Old Ass Superstars) - but there is very little true power there, at least not in the way there used to be.
RIP IQ. I was worried about it all summer. I think fans and IQ overrate IQ, though I think the front office underrates him. The playoffs worried me a bit. Not sure he’s a cornerstone trade piece, but he’s too good to be a career sixth man at 24 yrs old. Tough situation.
I’m curious if you thought the FO viewed this as “IQ or Grimes” (or RJ) based on the second apron -- would’ve been tough to keep all 3, so could that have factored in?
Let me come at the IQ thing from a different angle which is that last night showcased the ugly side of current NBA fandom, even in a group that is as great as the Knicks Twitter verse. By and large, if you are reading this newsletter or commenting you are a pretty big NBA head and have, at worst, a cursory knowledge of how the league works. Which makes it infuriating when you express anger and/or sadness that IQ is probably gone and you get a mob of Brock Aller-wannabes being like "durrr,, sounds like someone doesn't know how being an RFA works." Just the worst people, infected with full-time GM brain. It's okay to be a fan and be emotionally invested in a team and players while also understanding how the league works (FTR, yes as an RFA the Knicks can match any offer but if someone throws a monster bag at IQ they won't and he walks for nothing). My point is that last night and even today it feels like the whole balance of being a fan (emotional + analytical) has gone out the window and anyone who expresses a little bit of feelings as a fan gets drowned out by a mob of people cosplaying as GM. Sorry for the rant but after 40+ years rooting for this team and having a player like IQ come along who does so much to impact the game that doesn't show in traditional stats (on/off metrics, defensive rating, etc), and who lights up the Garden and connects with the fans like few players in the history of the freaking franchise it's a little dispiriting to have everyone just blow it off that he is probably off the team in less than a year.
I think what Jon is saying is that you can't pay a backup as much as your starters unless you are already contending for a championship. I think that's fair. If you want to look for comparisons of young players that might warrant such a contract, look at Rod Strickland. He was so good he made the Knicks have to make a choice at starting pg. IQ is good but he's not going to force the Knicks to make a choice. So as a bench player you can't expect to pay 20-25/yr. He's more like 12-14. Knicks have hired some guys to work the cap side of things to build a team out of an organization that had no draft picks, no manuverability, no reliable all-star type players and did it all without tanking and never went over the cap. This is a rediculous accomplishment. No #1 picks. The one draft we get top three, it's a top two heavy draft and even those top two have issues. The fact we are in the position we are in with Julius Randle and Jalen Brunson leading us along with a 2nd round pick, a late first round pick and a fairly unspectacular 3rd pick is frankly outrageous. To think that we sacrifice our chances at winning it all because we 'owe' someone or it is the 'right thing to do' to pay someone who's been 'loyal' is not what sports is about. You pay those guys AFTER you win a championship and even then it's only the Dwayne Wade types that get that kind of loyalty contract. I love our team. I have been following them since I was seven years old, and I want to compete for a championship. I've been loyal. Where's my contract?
Quickly has done everything this team has asked of him. Treating loyal players like assets instead of people is how you break teams. Everyone in the locker room is going to know who gets and who doesn’t. Leon wanted to create a “family”? Sure doesn’t look like it this morning.
Per Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Knicks are willing to offer a package of three players among Julius Randle, R.J. Barrett, Evan Fournier and Mitchell Robinson plus two or three future first-round draft picks to the Sixers for Embiid.
I want to start off by saying that morally, seeing a player who we all love not get rewarded for his hard work and dedication to this franchise is disheartening. I love IQ and hope he’s here for a long time.
That said, I think it was the occurrence of a perfect storm of events that led us to this moment. It’s almost like Quickley’s leverage and bargaining position was too strong. He had so many bargaining chips to throw at the Knicks, which all justified why he should get what he was asking for. On the other side, the Knicks FO had a price point set that they wouldnt go over, and as we all know if the Knicks don’t think a deal is worth it for them at a particular time, they are not going to get bullied into doing it (based off their track record). So regardless of what IQ’s reps said or pointed to, trying to bring the Knicks up to their desired $ range, it was never going to happen. It just feels like this path was already set in stone. Ultimately, I am perfectly fine with what the FO decided to do with this situation. This is a results driven business after all and whatever they think is the right move to get them where they want to be is what they will do.
I am fine with what FO did here , calculated risk . I agree with your point with making IQ highest paid player on team cannot see that going over well in locker room . Feel that Maxey will have a better year and be more desirable for a team to extend an offer sheet for big dollars . Either way glad it’s done and just focus on season . If IQ wants a big bag just show out better than last year and he will benefit and team will benefit.
Great analysis, great writing. It's all here! ...I'd think some kind of IQ/Fournier/pick for Anunoby would make some sense at the deadline, but with the litigation not sure if they'll be talking.
I am not surprised at that IQ didn’t agree to an extension. He’s always had eyes on a starting PG gig and as much as I believe he loves NY, he knows it won’t be here. I’m certain he and his team was willing to entertain an extension offer that blew him away and paid him as if he was a starting PG, but would otherwise pass and hope for an offer from a team next year that had real intention to make him a starter and cornerstone (an offer the Knicks likely wouldn’t match or match and he’s in NY and wealthier than he would’ve been with a signed extension). This is a good bet for both sides. Thanks KFS for helping us all see beyond the obvious fan view (built on a ton of previous regime trauma) that this was a miss or contentious.
iQ views himself as a starter and wants to be paid like one. Can’t say I blame him with the money being thrown around the league these days. Enjoy him this season and see what happens.
I can understand and respect the front office’s position on Quickley but I do think sometimes there’s too much group think with Leon and company. It’s like they’re collaboratively deliberating towards the perfect trade scenario which is probably never happening. Other front offices have smart people also, including guys who are every bit as asset savvy as Brock Aller.
But on Quickley you really have to know what he wants before you can criticize the Knicks too much. Judging by his agent’s social media posts though, it doesn’t sound like the two sides were all that close yesterday.
The point you made in the second footnote is a great one. I never considered that angle - I’d imagine plenty of guys would have a problem with the 6th man making more than the best player.
The only way a deal was getting done was if the number was good for the Knicks. Randle took less, Brunson’s on a bargain - no way IQ was gonna get Vassell / Jaden money (both those contracts seem absurd btw).
Your point about his trade eligibility had he extended is also very relevant. I’d bet a meaningful amount of money that keeping him eligible for a star trade this year played a part in this. You said it yourself - the parity right now is insane, which means teams expecting to be good may very well suck this year. You never know who will become available, and IQ strengthens any potential offer.
Looking at the West it is striking how old a lot of the dominant players from the last decade have gotten. The 2015 playoffs will be nine years ago by the time this year’s playoffs arrive. Call me crazy, I don’t think Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, PG, CP3, or KD will even sniff a championship. They can still look the part if you squint enough, the numbers are still more or less there in our largely defense averse league... but I submit they have all lost the stamina to dominate for the three month gauntlet it takes to win the playoffs. Jokic is young, unstoppable, and in his prime. Nuggets may have a little championship hangover to start the season, but I see them steamrolling through the playoffs and only being challenged by the Bucks or Celtics. I think there is parity in the West, because there’s a lot of teams relying on OAS (Old Ass Superstars) - but there is very little true power there, at least not in the way there used to be.
RIP IQ. I was worried about it all summer. I think fans and IQ overrate IQ, though I think the front office underrates him. The playoffs worried me a bit. Not sure he’s a cornerstone trade piece, but he’s too good to be a career sixth man at 24 yrs old. Tough situation.
I’m curious if you thought the FO viewed this as “IQ or Grimes” (or RJ) based on the second apron -- would’ve been tough to keep all 3, so could that have factored in?
Let me come at the IQ thing from a different angle which is that last night showcased the ugly side of current NBA fandom, even in a group that is as great as the Knicks Twitter verse. By and large, if you are reading this newsletter or commenting you are a pretty big NBA head and have, at worst, a cursory knowledge of how the league works. Which makes it infuriating when you express anger and/or sadness that IQ is probably gone and you get a mob of Brock Aller-wannabes being like "durrr,, sounds like someone doesn't know how being an RFA works." Just the worst people, infected with full-time GM brain. It's okay to be a fan and be emotionally invested in a team and players while also understanding how the league works (FTR, yes as an RFA the Knicks can match any offer but if someone throws a monster bag at IQ they won't and he walks for nothing). My point is that last night and even today it feels like the whole balance of being a fan (emotional + analytical) has gone out the window and anyone who expresses a little bit of feelings as a fan gets drowned out by a mob of people cosplaying as GM. Sorry for the rant but after 40+ years rooting for this team and having a player like IQ come along who does so much to impact the game that doesn't show in traditional stats (on/off metrics, defensive rating, etc), and who lights up the Garden and connects with the fans like few players in the history of the freaking franchise it's a little dispiriting to have everyone just blow it off that he is probably off the team in less than a year.
I think what Jon is saying is that you can't pay a backup as much as your starters unless you are already contending for a championship. I think that's fair. If you want to look for comparisons of young players that might warrant such a contract, look at Rod Strickland. He was so good he made the Knicks have to make a choice at starting pg. IQ is good but he's not going to force the Knicks to make a choice. So as a bench player you can't expect to pay 20-25/yr. He's more like 12-14. Knicks have hired some guys to work the cap side of things to build a team out of an organization that had no draft picks, no manuverability, no reliable all-star type players and did it all without tanking and never went over the cap. This is a rediculous accomplishment. No #1 picks. The one draft we get top three, it's a top two heavy draft and even those top two have issues. The fact we are in the position we are in with Julius Randle and Jalen Brunson leading us along with a 2nd round pick, a late first round pick and a fairly unspectacular 3rd pick is frankly outrageous. To think that we sacrifice our chances at winning it all because we 'owe' someone or it is the 'right thing to do' to pay someone who's been 'loyal' is not what sports is about. You pay those guys AFTER you win a championship and even then it's only the Dwayne Wade types that get that kind of loyalty contract. I love our team. I have been following them since I was seven years old, and I want to compete for a championship. I've been loyal. Where's my contract?
Quickly has done everything this team has asked of him. Treating loyal players like assets instead of people is how you break teams. Everyone in the locker room is going to know who gets and who doesn’t. Leon wanted to create a “family”? Sure doesn’t look like it this morning.
The rumor mill is churning:
Per Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Knicks are willing to offer a package of three players among Julius Randle, R.J. Barrett, Evan Fournier and Mitchell Robinson plus two or three future first-round draft picks to the Sixers for Embiid.