"Julius Randle isn’t as important to this franchise as Jalen Brunson, and I’m fairly certain that no one - even Randle himself - would argue otherwise." I bet the only guy who would argue otherwise is Brunson himself, but only because that's the kind of guy he is.
It's so strange to know that the Knicks will go into this season with real aspirations. I remember a time, I think it was after the 54-win season of the Melo years, where the team came into training camp talking about how they were a contender and Knicks fans everywhere knew that meant exactly one thing: We were not contenders and the media was going to clown on the team for acting like they were. Now we are contenders, but you know we won't be hearing that from the coach or players.
I think Morey did a great job in Philly so far this off. season. And rite now I believe they have a better roster than the Knicks, especially with this current void at center . I do hope Precious comes back, however as a backup power forward not center. I really like getting Bridges, resigning OG at this exorbitant price was a must (though I think he was selfish) and that will jeopardize Jalen signing an extension now which will hurt the team financially. As the best player on the team, he shud be the highest paid. They really need to get a high quality center, as another subscriber noted at least Isaiah lite. If they don't I think it will really come back to bite them. Finally, I really like how they did in the draft. I think the young guy will really be a gud player down the road, the PG is a stud and the guy from Kansas can play. Don't really know much about the center. Waiting to hear more about him from Jonathan. Hopefully he turns out to be a player.
I think you are right on target Phil. The Sixers have a better starting five although I think we are deeper. Also, if you lined up the best players you probably get Embiid, George, Jalen, Maxey.
I also agree with Paul that OG did the Knicks no favors taking every last penny. As a guy who averages 60 games played a season, it would have been nice to give the Knicks a bit of a break to sign more depth.
at this point we are pot committed with Randle at the starting 4 and backup 5.. i cant think abt a single trade of randle that would make the knicks better. randle needs to step up this year as does everyone
Poor Kenny Atkinson. Can’t even get the Cavs job without Kenny Payne immediately looming over his shoulder. Weird that this would be announced without a corresponding Thibs extension.
Part of me feels like if Precious is the plan for backup center, we would have brought him back by now. I find it interesting he's still unsigned. Maybe Leon is trying to iron out another trade?
I think there's a reasonable chance Leon is working behind the scenes to trade for a backup center and at the same time try to bring Precious back but as more of a backup 4/emergency 5.
The biggest risk point for the Knicks — to contend for a title — is the decision they make around the center position.
I think Hartenstein was a much better fit for the Knicks (and most teams) than Robinson. Does that mean the Knicks are searching for Hartenstein light? Also, I’d argue that the Knicks need at least two quality back up centers (Sims is not that) because of Mitch’s injury.
But where does Hartenstein light come from? Can Precious be part of that solution? Who else? Would the Knicks be comfortable putting together a package of Deuce, the Detroit #1, and swaps in 2028 and 2030? Because the Detroit pick is more important to Detroit than any other team, would they deal Jalen Duran? (Deal works in RealGm Trade Checker).
I don’t think duren or anyone they could currently get is worth this package. I would offer deuce and 2 to 3 2nds for Kessler. Need to keep enough assets for the possibility of a move involving Randle for an upgrade at the 4 or 5.
Agreed - that would definitely be an overpay in my mind. Deuce + several 2nds for Kessler is also what I think is a fair offer. Maybe you throw in the Detroit pick if its necessary to get that across the finish line but I would keep all the other 1sts. I do agree with the point they need to address center though.
If Kessler is too rich and they can figure out a way to keep deuce but send more money out to acquire richards for a couple 2nds I think that is the backup plan.
I don't see Randle holding out for max money. Everything I've seen reported by "insiders," says the FO isn't ready to make an offer, not that Randle is playing hardball. He would likely sign an extension now if offered starting at $35 million per year. His good will tour this summer says he wants to be here, wants to win here and wants work his way up the Knicks' record books. He doesn't want to start over and is comfortable. The wants surety over maximizing his earnings. And he took the smaller guaranteed deal before.
The question is whether the FO makes that offer or makes him earn an extension, even if it costs more money. He does have fans in the organization, and I would hope any trade would put him in a good spot, but business is business. So we will see.
I agree with this. Ive never looked it up but it feels like Randle has taken the money as soon as it's there every step of the way. No shade to him but I expect him to sign an extension this off-season.
I'd add one more thing. If Brunson takes a deal that is below the max, I think it "encourages" Randle to similarly take less money to help hold the team together under the cap.
No way Knicks go after Paul Reed after he was essentially the main reason the Knicks beat Philly (unless the Knicks have massive confidence in their big man coaching). Still waiting for the master-plan at C to come to fruition. There's no way Precious should be a FA unless there's a potential S&T cooking
Wonder if the Knicks just elevate Dice and have him spearhead some of the player development or whether they look to now make an additional hire to the staff for this.
Very much appreciate what Bryant did here and Leon/Thibs will need to address that vacancy but why he would leave for a lateral move to Cleveland is beyond me. Does he think there's a better chance he can - with Mitchell's help - usurp Atkinson in Cleveland than be in position to get promoted to the head job here if Thibs retires in a few years? Perhaps, but puzzling to say the least.
The ideal scenario for the Knicks would be for Randle to agree to a 3 year extension with a team option on the 3rd year. He can get the max money for this. This would make moving him much easier. Obviously this seems pretty doubtful. Do you get him to agree to a 4 year 181 million deal now? Give him the full max extension, avoid the risk of having to pay more in free agency and have the ability to trade him next summer much more easily. What if he has another terrible playoff run or bad injury after this? Big risk but maybe one they need to take.
Potential trade targets I see next summer:
Suns- KD will be on an expiring deal. If the suns flop again it could be time for both sides there to part ways. Would Knicks move Randle + Robinson for 36 year old KD?
Lakers- AD will have 2 years left on his deal. Is there a scenario where the lakers don’t get out of the first round again and AD decides he wants a better chance to compete for the rest of his late prime? If lebron is still there seems more likely this could happen in 2026.
Wolves- if the wolves don’t get out of the west, with their apron and tax problems, plus with the opportunity for naz to get more playing time elsewhere, I’m assuming wolves would rather keep Naz and move kat. Would Knicks decide it’s worth having a 5 who doesn’t protect the rim to have a 5 out lineup who can all shoot?
Bucks- if the bucks flop again, does giannis look at the East landscape and decide he wants to go somewhere else he can compete? Giannis would have 2 years left on his deal b4 he can opt out. Is he the type of guy to ask out and request a specific place? Could a package of randle Robinson deuce two protected firsts and 3 unprotected swaps get it done?
Maybe none of these guys become available, or randle has a great year and postseason run and the Knicks win the title and run it back. Hoping for that but I remain skeptical about Randle being on this team in the long run.
Agree. Here’s the thing with AD. His 3 year 175 million dollar extension kicks in after this year. From age 32-34. The best time to trade him would really be this year for the lakers. Is it possible at the deadline if they suck? Then again AD might wanna be a laker for life and lebron plays another 3 years. But patching things up with klutch, lebron has a no trade clause but also a 15% trade kicker, maybe something is going on there. Just wonder if lakers would even want Randle back and have to extend him or if they would acquire him next summer via sign and trade for a big number to match ads huge salary.
Yup. Another thing to consider. Lakers own their 2026 pick outright and 2027 pick if it is in the top 4. They could do a 2 year tank and then try to attract big name free agents to pair with their young guys if they are at the top of the lottery. What’s the reason for AD to stay once lebron retires? They’re better off getting assets back and building a new team with JJ. Maybe that means a 3rd team needs to be involved to take on Randle.
if they don't make a trade that causes them to get hard capped at an apron, then yes, they can sign to get over the soft cap. Even if they're not hard capped, once they cross the apron they are hit with that level of apron's rules. Going across the second apron two years in a row is generally bad news (i think you lose ability to trade distant 1st rounder picks and that pick ends up moving to end of the round or something)
Yes but the issue is that Randle signed a sub-max deal last time, so his raise is limited to 140% of the previous deal. That's the deal that White signed just now (140% of his previous deal) which was viewed around the league as something of a bargain. We'll see if Randle decides to do the same.
Part of me wonders where the now-sorta-tanking Chicago is going to send Vuc. I can totally see him being the missing piece on a title team with his ability to stretch the floor. His contract is manageable. He’s obviously not a scheme fit, but maybe schemes change? I am really feeling the loss of Hartenstein because he unlocked so much offensively. Vuc is certainly not the defender Hartenstein is though.
I think the issue with Vooch is that he is not playable defensively. Like, at all. At least against good teams. He wouldn't see a minute of time in a Boston series, for example. The fact that his outside shot is no longer something teams fear hasn't helped.
"Julius Randle isn’t as important to this franchise as Jalen Brunson, and I’m fairly certain that no one - even Randle himself - would argue otherwise." I bet the only guy who would argue otherwise is Brunson himself, but only because that's the kind of guy he is.
It's so strange to know that the Knicks will go into this season with real aspirations. I remember a time, I think it was after the 54-win season of the Melo years, where the team came into training camp talking about how they were a contender and Knicks fans everywhere knew that meant exactly one thing: We were not contenders and the media was going to clown on the team for acting like they were. Now we are contenders, but you know we won't be hearing that from the coach or players.
I think Morey did a great job in Philly so far this off. season. And rite now I believe they have a better roster than the Knicks, especially with this current void at center . I do hope Precious comes back, however as a backup power forward not center. I really like getting Bridges, resigning OG at this exorbitant price was a must (though I think he was selfish) and that will jeopardize Jalen signing an extension now which will hurt the team financially. As the best player on the team, he shud be the highest paid. They really need to get a high quality center, as another subscriber noted at least Isaiah lite. If they don't I think it will really come back to bite them. Finally, I really like how they did in the draft. I think the young guy will really be a gud player down the road, the PG is a stud and the guy from Kansas can play. Don't really know much about the center. Waiting to hear more about him from Jonathan. Hopefully he turns out to be a player.
I think you are right on target Phil. The Sixers have a better starting five although I think we are deeper. Also, if you lined up the best players you probably get Embiid, George, Jalen, Maxey.
I also agree with Paul that OG did the Knicks no favors taking every last penny. As a guy who averages 60 games played a season, it would have been nice to give the Knicks a bit of a break to sign more depth.
at this point we are pot committed with Randle at the starting 4 and backup 5.. i cant think abt a single trade of randle that would make the knicks better. randle needs to step up this year as does everyone
Poor Kenny Atkinson. Can’t even get the Cavs job without Kenny Payne immediately looming over his shoulder. Weird that this would be announced without a corresponding Thibs extension.
I assume you mean Johnny B. But he wouldn’t have moved to Cleveland without first being told that the Thibs extension is coming, right?
Correct
Part of me feels like if Precious is the plan for backup center, we would have brought him back by now. I find it interesting he's still unsigned. Maybe Leon is trying to iron out another trade?
I think there's a reasonable chance Leon is working behind the scenes to trade for a backup center and at the same time try to bring Precious back but as more of a backup 4/emergency 5.
The biggest risk point for the Knicks — to contend for a title — is the decision they make around the center position.
I think Hartenstein was a much better fit for the Knicks (and most teams) than Robinson. Does that mean the Knicks are searching for Hartenstein light? Also, I’d argue that the Knicks need at least two quality back up centers (Sims is not that) because of Mitch’s injury.
But where does Hartenstein light come from? Can Precious be part of that solution? Who else? Would the Knicks be comfortable putting together a package of Deuce, the Detroit #1, and swaps in 2028 and 2030? Because the Detroit pick is more important to Detroit than any other team, would they deal Jalen Duran? (Deal works in RealGm Trade Checker).
I don’t think duren or anyone they could currently get is worth this package. I would offer deuce and 2 to 3 2nds for Kessler. Need to keep enough assets for the possibility of a move involving Randle for an upgrade at the 4 or 5.
Agreed - that would definitely be an overpay in my mind. Deuce + several 2nds for Kessler is also what I think is a fair offer. Maybe you throw in the Detroit pick if its necessary to get that across the finish line but I would keep all the other 1sts. I do agree with the point they need to address center though.
If Kessler is too rich and they can figure out a way to keep deuce but send more money out to acquire richards for a couple 2nds I think that is the backup plan.
Yea, Begley's reporting seems to suggest that.
Has he reported anything new on Kessler?
Don't think so outside of the fact that the Knicks are interested and monitoring his situation.
I don't see Randle holding out for max money. Everything I've seen reported by "insiders," says the FO isn't ready to make an offer, not that Randle is playing hardball. He would likely sign an extension now if offered starting at $35 million per year. His good will tour this summer says he wants to be here, wants to win here and wants work his way up the Knicks' record books. He doesn't want to start over and is comfortable. The wants surety over maximizing his earnings. And he took the smaller guaranteed deal before.
The question is whether the FO makes that offer or makes him earn an extension, even if it costs more money. He does have fans in the organization, and I would hope any trade would put him in a good spot, but business is business. So we will see.
I agree with this. Ive never looked it up but it feels like Randle has taken the money as soon as it's there every step of the way. No shade to him but I expect him to sign an extension this off-season.
I'd add one more thing. If Brunson takes a deal that is below the max, I think it "encourages" Randle to similarly take less money to help hold the team together under the cap.
No way Knicks go after Paul Reed after he was essentially the main reason the Knicks beat Philly (unless the Knicks have massive confidence in their big man coaching). Still waiting for the master-plan at C to come to fruition. There's no way Precious should be a FA unless there's a potential S&T cooking
Wonder if the Knicks just elevate Dice and have him spearhead some of the player development or whether they look to now make an additional hire to the staff for this.
Very much appreciate what Bryant did here and Leon/Thibs will need to address that vacancy but why he would leave for a lateral move to Cleveland is beyond me. Does he think there's a better chance he can - with Mitchell's help - usurp Atkinson in Cleveland than be in position to get promoted to the head job here if Thibs retires in a few years? Perhaps, but puzzling to say the least.
The ideal scenario for the Knicks would be for Randle to agree to a 3 year extension with a team option on the 3rd year. He can get the max money for this. This would make moving him much easier. Obviously this seems pretty doubtful. Do you get him to agree to a 4 year 181 million deal now? Give him the full max extension, avoid the risk of having to pay more in free agency and have the ability to trade him next summer much more easily. What if he has another terrible playoff run or bad injury after this? Big risk but maybe one they need to take.
Potential trade targets I see next summer:
Suns- KD will be on an expiring deal. If the suns flop again it could be time for both sides there to part ways. Would Knicks move Randle + Robinson for 36 year old KD?
Lakers- AD will have 2 years left on his deal. Is there a scenario where the lakers don’t get out of the first round again and AD decides he wants a better chance to compete for the rest of his late prime? If lebron is still there seems more likely this could happen in 2026.
Wolves- if the wolves don’t get out of the west, with their apron and tax problems, plus with the opportunity for naz to get more playing time elsewhere, I’m assuming wolves would rather keep Naz and move kat. Would Knicks decide it’s worth having a 5 who doesn’t protect the rim to have a 5 out lineup who can all shoot?
Bucks- if the bucks flop again, does giannis look at the East landscape and decide he wants to go somewhere else he can compete? Giannis would have 2 years left on his deal b4 he can opt out. Is he the type of guy to ask out and request a specific place? Could a package of randle Robinson deuce two protected firsts and 3 unprotected swaps get it done?
Maybe none of these guys become available, or randle has a great year and postseason run and the Knicks win the title and run it back. Hoping for that but I remain skeptical about Randle being on this team in the long run.
don't think that's enough for Giannis, as I'll get to with an upcoming Randle-centric newsletter. I think AD is more realistic
Agree. Here’s the thing with AD. His 3 year 175 million dollar extension kicks in after this year. From age 32-34. The best time to trade him would really be this year for the lakers. Is it possible at the deadline if they suck? Then again AD might wanna be a laker for life and lebron plays another 3 years. But patching things up with klutch, lebron has a no trade clause but also a 15% trade kicker, maybe something is going on there. Just wonder if lakers would even want Randle back and have to extend him or if they would acquire him next summer via sign and trade for a big number to match ads huge salary.
LeBron ain't playing no three years lol. ANd remember, AD was rumored to have NY on his "list" 5 years ago.
Yup. Another thing to consider. Lakers own their 2026 pick outright and 2027 pick if it is in the top 4. They could do a 2 year tank and then try to attract big name free agents to pair with their young guys if they are at the top of the lottery. What’s the reason for AD to stay once lebron retires? They’re better off getting assets back and building a new team with JJ. Maybe that means a 3rd team needs to be involved to take on Randle.
And within a year, NY can trade 3 future swaps. Might be appealing.
I see Houston as a good destination. Randle is from Dallas. Great young team.
Thompson
Green
Whitmore
Randle
Smith
Bench:
Sheppard
Brooks
Eason
Adams/landale
That’s a really good team. They would move vanvleet and sengun in the trade. Don’t c them wanting to pay sengun when they got better without him.
Wait till you see the Randle-themed newsletter later this week
https://sports.yahoo.com/rockets-adjust-tactics-jabari-smith-152207755.html
Aren't the Knicks allowed to sign their own players, regardless of salary caps or aprons?
Yes but there’s a limit when there are years left on the deal, even with full bird rights
if they don't make a trade that causes them to get hard capped at an apron, then yes, they can sign to get over the soft cap. Even if they're not hard capped, once they cross the apron they are hit with that level of apron's rules. Going across the second apron two years in a row is generally bad news (i think you lose ability to trade distant 1st rounder picks and that pick ends up moving to end of the round or something)
I was wondering because Boston seems to have signed all their players.
Yes but the issue is that Randle signed a sub-max deal last time, so his raise is limited to 140% of the previous deal. That's the deal that White signed just now (140% of his previous deal) which was viewed around the league as something of a bargain. We'll see if Randle decides to do the same.
Part of me wonders where the now-sorta-tanking Chicago is going to send Vuc. I can totally see him being the missing piece on a title team with his ability to stretch the floor. His contract is manageable. He’s obviously not a scheme fit, but maybe schemes change? I am really feeling the loss of Hartenstein because he unlocked so much offensively. Vuc is certainly not the defender Hartenstein is though.
I think the issue with Vooch is that he is not playable defensively. Like, at all. At least against good teams. He wouldn't see a minute of time in a Boston series, for example. The fact that his outside shot is no longer something teams fear hasn't helped.
Completely agree. Not that my opinion matters, but I certainly fear his outside shot every time he spots up against us lol
Very fair!