If I’m Thibs, with Brunson out, I’m giving Kolek the job as the starting point guard, even if it’s just as a nominal starter. Deuce is best served playing next to a real point guard, as we all agree that he is a wing who doesn’t have the creation juice. I like the idea of Kolek playing with the starters because it will better help on the defensive end, and may also serve as more of a security blanket for him. I like the idea of Cam and Deuce solidifying our bench.
Lol wow Jon, I’m listening to your podcast with Jeremy and now I see that you will disagree with this! Man, I usually agree with your analysis on most issues but I gotta disagree here. I also am not focused on Kolek’s development. I’m only proposing playing him because he optimizes our lineups with Brunson out. No reason other than that
Fault me for it, but I'll trust the coaching staff who has thought that Kolek doesn't give them a better chance to win than the guys who are playing. It would be one thing if Payne wasn't good. He's been the most pleasant surprise on the team.
Oh I think Payne has been very good. And I’d honestly be fine starting Payne at PG. I just don’t think that Deuce is a starting PG for this offense. Jeremy raised a good point - if Thibs has been playing Deuce almost entirely as a backup wing, why is he the first option to replace our starting point guard? (Obviously, deuce is the best player of the three)
I’m glad to see Deuce’s name mentioned. An entire article about the Knicks with nary a mention of the guy, who when substituted for any of the wings in the SL, improves the net rating. Thank you, Lee.
I would add one more thing that people were saying before the season - Deuce would be in the running for 6MOTY. Seemed like a stretch even for the biggest McBride fan here. But ok.
I like to hold judgement on any of the Knicks rosters until MLK day. This year I thought we were good but not as good as Cleveland & Boston and that's pretty much been the case.
What is all the dismissive vitriol about seeing Kolek strut his stuff? Deuce is a 2 guard trapped in a PG body, and Cam Payne needs to go through a trigonometric series of calculations just to contort his body in a position to launch a non-airball 3. What is to be gained by seeing more of them at PG instead of giving Kolek a chance to play with the big boys? He is not 19, he is clearly the best passer on the team, and why not see what we have here? If he fails, that’s life, but if he succeeds, then at worst you have a trade chip and at best you have found another rotation player for the future. This team needs to take a longer-term view. Development has not been enough of a priority.
I'll just never care about developing a guy during a season in which the goal is a title. Payne has been woefully under-appreciated. Kolek can't play NBA defense yet. I hope he gets there soon and can become a 10-15 minute guy off the bench as soon as next year. For now though, the goal has to be to maximize this season, for me at least.
So are you saying that competing for a Championship and developing players are mutually exclusive and cannot be done simultaneously? I don’t agree at all. How is Kolek going to learn how to be passable on defense without playing? By watching Brunson play? By playing video games? You learn by doing and failing.
They aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes you can develop and compete. I just don't believe that Kolek is going to give them the best chance to win right now. Maybe in 5-10 minutes a night, but I'll trust the coaching staff on that front.
That’s fair, but then to my second point we’re in a BAD place if our only viable point guard/lead ball handler/initiatoe beyond Brunson is Cam Payne on the minimum. Both for when Brunson is healthy and for when he’s out.
I just genuinely think that the Knicks have a better chance of beating the Kings, and then the Blazers, if someone other than Deuce is initiating our offense. It’s got nothing to do with development for me. I take Jon’s point that Thibs/Knicks know better than us where Kolek stands in his development. All of that said, if he’s truly “not ready”, it’s a pretty huge indictment on the front office that we don’t really have any offensive creators other than Brunson. Like - how badly would we use someone like Caris Lavert right now, or even (gulp) 2022 Alec Burks
You might be right Lee. I also think Deuce had an absolutely atrocious game against a top 5 defense on the second night of a back to back. Suggesting he's incapable of being the nominal starting point guard based on that, when we've seen him do a better job (albeit an imperfect job) in the past, is a bridge too far for the moment. If he keeps struggling, maybe we have a different conversation.
I really like Deuce. I’m trying not to be dismissive of him, especially considering the clear jumps he’s made in 4 seasons. One area where he hasn’t really improved is his ability to get to the basket, and his rim finishing has actually gotten worse. I’m not expecting Kolek to start or even Payne to start, but if the starting offense bogs down I’d love to see an adjustment going forward (like you, I’m a Thibs guy)
Agreed, Kolek's defense needs substantial improvement. Nevertheless, teams also take advantage of Brunson on defense and Kolek offers a significant improvement over Payne or Deuce in creating offense and generating assists. At this point, there is little to lose in providing Kolek an opportunity to show what he can do.
But we're in game 63 of the season and Brunson is out for at least the next two weeks. Not playing in the play-in is looking like a pretty good certainty. Unless you think Deuce at PG is better than Kolek at PG, I don't really understand why the "goal of a championship" and "winning games" would interfere with playing a rookie 10-15 minutes. ESPECIALLY since our guys are playing extremely heavy minutes and workloads for pretty insignificant games.
If I’m Thibs, with Brunson out, I’m giving Kolek the job as the starting point guard, even if it’s just as a nominal starter. Deuce is best served playing next to a real point guard, as we all agree that he is a wing who doesn’t have the creation juice. I like the idea of Kolek playing with the starters because it will better help on the defensive end, and may also serve as more of a security blanket for him. I like the idea of Cam and Deuce solidifying our bench.
Deuce isn't and has never been a point guard. Payne/Kolek is inarguably better than Deuce for this role.
Lol wow Jon, I’m listening to your podcast with Jeremy and now I see that you will disagree with this! Man, I usually agree with your analysis on most issues but I gotta disagree here. I also am not focused on Kolek’s development. I’m only proposing playing him because he optimizes our lineups with Brunson out. No reason other than that
Fault me for it, but I'll trust the coaching staff who has thought that Kolek doesn't give them a better chance to win than the guys who are playing. It would be one thing if Payne wasn't good. He's been the most pleasant surprise on the team.
Oh I think Payne has been very good. And I’d honestly be fine starting Payne at PG. I just don’t think that Deuce is a starting PG for this offense. Jeremy raised a good point - if Thibs has been playing Deuce almost entirely as a backup wing, why is he the first option to replace our starting point guard? (Obviously, deuce is the best player of the three)
I’m glad to see Deuce’s name mentioned. An entire article about the Knicks with nary a mention of the guy, who when substituted for any of the wings in the SL, improves the net rating. Thank you, Lee.
I would add one more thing that people were saying before the season - Deuce would be in the running for 6MOTY. Seemed like a stretch even for the biggest McBride fan here. But ok.
Deuce wasn't mentioned because he's a given for me, and all of the mentions of a potential SL change would obviously implicate Deuce.
#101 Tyler Kolek :)
if that lol
I like to hold judgement on any of the Knicks rosters until MLK day. This year I thought we were good but not as good as Cleveland & Boston and that's pretty much been the case.
What is all the dismissive vitriol about seeing Kolek strut his stuff? Deuce is a 2 guard trapped in a PG body, and Cam Payne needs to go through a trigonometric series of calculations just to contort his body in a position to launch a non-airball 3. What is to be gained by seeing more of them at PG instead of giving Kolek a chance to play with the big boys? He is not 19, he is clearly the best passer on the team, and why not see what we have here? If he fails, that’s life, but if he succeeds, then at worst you have a trade chip and at best you have found another rotation player for the future. This team needs to take a longer-term view. Development has not been enough of a priority.
I'll just never care about developing a guy during a season in which the goal is a title. Payne has been woefully under-appreciated. Kolek can't play NBA defense yet. I hope he gets there soon and can become a 10-15 minute guy off the bench as soon as next year. For now though, the goal has to be to maximize this season, for me at least.
So are you saying that competing for a Championship and developing players are mutually exclusive and cannot be done simultaneously? I don’t agree at all. How is Kolek going to learn how to be passable on defense without playing? By watching Brunson play? By playing video games? You learn by doing and failing.
They aren't mutually exclusive. Sometimes you can develop and compete. I just don't believe that Kolek is going to give them the best chance to win right now. Maybe in 5-10 minutes a night, but I'll trust the coaching staff on that front.
That’s fair, but then to my second point we’re in a BAD place if our only viable point guard/lead ball handler/initiatoe beyond Brunson is Cam Payne on the minimum. Both for when Brunson is healthy and for when he’s out.
I just genuinely think that the Knicks have a better chance of beating the Kings, and then the Blazers, if someone other than Deuce is initiating our offense. It’s got nothing to do with development for me. I take Jon’s point that Thibs/Knicks know better than us where Kolek stands in his development. All of that said, if he’s truly “not ready”, it’s a pretty huge indictment on the front office that we don’t really have any offensive creators other than Brunson. Like - how badly would we use someone like Caris Lavert right now, or even (gulp) 2022 Alec Burks
You might be right Lee. I also think Deuce had an absolutely atrocious game against a top 5 defense on the second night of a back to back. Suggesting he's incapable of being the nominal starting point guard based on that, when we've seen him do a better job (albeit an imperfect job) in the past, is a bridge too far for the moment. If he keeps struggling, maybe we have a different conversation.
I really like Deuce. I’m trying not to be dismissive of him, especially considering the clear jumps he’s made in 4 seasons. One area where he hasn’t really improved is his ability to get to the basket, and his rim finishing has actually gotten worse. I’m not expecting Kolek to start or even Payne to start, but if the starting offense bogs down I’d love to see an adjustment going forward (like you, I’m a Thibs guy)
Agreed, Kolek's defense needs substantial improvement. Nevertheless, teams also take advantage of Brunson on defense and Kolek offers a significant improvement over Payne or Deuce in creating offense and generating assists. At this point, there is little to lose in providing Kolek an opportunity to show what he can do.
But we're in game 63 of the season and Brunson is out for at least the next two weeks. Not playing in the play-in is looking like a pretty good certainty. Unless you think Deuce at PG is better than Kolek at PG, I don't really understand why the "goal of a championship" and "winning games" would interfere with playing a rookie 10-15 minutes. ESPECIALLY since our guys are playing extremely heavy minutes and workloads for pretty insignificant games.